Brexit Penny Dropping?

[manxman1980]

3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Is it really?

Yes, the country is now being run by a party clearly divided and not fulfilling it's own manifesto pledges.  That party is now on its second leader who has not faced a general election despite the fact that each of those leadership changes has shifted the party in different directions.

A healthy democracy would have called a general election to reaffirm the public's support for the revised manifesto and aims of the Government.

[The Voice of Reason]

5 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

A healthy democracy would have called a general election to reaffirm the public's support for the revised manifesto and aims of the Government.

As much as the Tory party is rubbish they were voted in for up to five years whoever their leader and direction.

Thats democracy.

Edited December 2, 2022 by The Voice of Reason

[manxman1980]

4 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

As much as the Tory party is rubbish they were voted in for up to five years whoever their leader and direction.

Thats democracy.

They were voted in based on their manifesto.

That manifesto has fundamentally changed but they won't present it at a General Election as they know they would at the least lose seats or at worst become the third party.

The opposition don't have enough numbers in Parliament to force a General Election and even those in the Tory Party who are critical of the current Government/Leadership are not going to put their jobs at risk by supporting calls for a general election. 

The UK is then stuck with this situation until the end of the five year term in which time the Tories are hoping the population forget about everything they have done..

Edited December 2, 2022 by manxman1980
Spelling

[Non-Believer]

Sajid Javid now announces his intention to stand down at the next election. That's 17 Conservative MPs who have announced such now.

[John Wright]

10 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Sajid Javid now announces his intention to stand down at the next election. That's 17 Conservative MPs who have announced such now.

Is that staggeringly high? Worthy of comment?

Its normally between 12-15% of MP’s at each election who don’t seek re-election. So you’d expect around 40+ Tories to stand down.

[Non-Believer]

6 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Is that staggeringly high? Worthy of comment?

Its normally between 12-15% of MP’s at each election who don’t seek re-election. So you’d expect around 40+ Tories to stand down.

He had a "safe" majority of 23,000 according to the article I watched, so hardly marginal but he failed to be appointed to office under either Truss or Sunak despite supporting both of them during their successful campaigns respectively.

Given his past office holdings, I'd say his is a fairly high profile "resignation"?

[John Wright]

10 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

He had a "safe" majority of 23,000 according to the article I watched, so hardly marginal but he failed to be appointed to office under either Truss or Sunak despite supporting both of them during their successful campaigns respectively.

Given his past office holdings, I'd say his is a fairly high profile "resignation"?

We are within the two year period before the next dissolution. Now is the time that those not intending to stand start to announce to allow selection, especially in safe seats, so that MP’s in marginals, or with constituencies that have become marginal, or will cease to exist, due to boundary changes, can be shuffled around.

Hes the sort of MP who will get a resignation peerage and a string of adviser or consultant posts and big fees on the speakers circuit.

[The Voice of Reason]

4 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

They were voted in based on their manifesto.

That manifesto has fundamentally changed but they won't present it at a General Election as they know they would at the least lose seats or at worst become the third party.

The opposition don't have enough numbers in Parliament to force a General Election and even those in the Tory Party who are critical of the current Government/Leadership are not going to put their jobs at risk by supporting calls for a general election. 

The UK is then stuck with this situation until the end of the five year term in which time the Tories are hoping the population forget about everything they have done..

Yes but unfortunately that’s just the way politics works. Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas etc

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes but unfortunately that’s just the way politics works. Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas etc

I know it is the way it works but that doesn't mean it should work that way hence why I see UK democracy as being broken.

Don't forget this is a Government that wants to restrict the right to protest and have enough MP's to vote it through.  What else might they push through to preserve their positions and party?

[woolley]

On 11/29/2022 at 9:40 PM, John Wright said:

Or an accurate report that the much vaunted/heralded UK - Japan trade deal, now in force for 2 years, isn’t working.

This sovereignty thing  is a great driver on the road to the bottom and economic ruin.

No. Already debunked as a typical Guardian hatchet job on anything UK. Figures taken from a time post-Covid, racked by dislocation of global trade due to supply constraints and sunken demand around the world.

[woolley]

19 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

I know it is the way it works but that doesn't mean it should work that way hence why I see UK democracy as being broken.

Don't forget this is a Government that wants to restrict the right to protest and have enough MP's to vote it through.  What else might they push through to preserve their positions and party?

So let's not muck out our own stables. Let's outsource legislation to a continental body with whatever risks that has for the future. That's what you're saying.

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

So let's not muck out our own stables. Let's outsource legislation to a continental body with whatever risks that has for the future. That's what you're saying.

You make me chuckle...

[manxman1980]

3 hours ago, woolley said:

So let's not muck out our own stables. Let's outsource legislation to a continental body with whatever risks that has for the future. That's what you're saying.

You have also quoted me on a response which wasn't about the ECHR or even the EU.  That particular response was about my view that UK democracy is broken.

I do think there is an argument for the ECHR.  We may think that the time of totalitarian rulers in Europe is in the past but I have given you examples of the UK Government trying to remove rights.  

I could also point to the Polish Government removing the separation between the Judicial and Political systems (a move I believe that the Tory Party would like to follow).  Hungary is another good example where Orban is more than happy to play the EU/NATO and Russia during the current conflict in Ukraine.  He is another leader who would happily remove the rights of citizens. 

So, in answer to your question,  I do believe there is a case for a legal system free from Political interference and that does require it to be outside the country.

[Apple]

Given the Finnish PMs comments yesterday(along the lines Europe is up a creek without a paddle and reliant totally on the USA) how about the UK becomes the US's next state.

It already is in all but name only - the 'special relationship' basically means we can put our soldier and weapons in the UK to help solve Europes problems out. Again !

Or something  like that.

[The Voice of Reason]

6 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

So, in answer to your question,  I do believe there is a case for a legal system free from Political interference and that does require it to be outside the country.

Absolute rot.

So the UK abandons  it’s legal system, deliberately designed to be outside political interference, to one that is created by other countries which have different cultures and circumstances.

Is there any particular EU country (ies) that you think would make a better fist of imposing a legal system on the UK rather than the UK making its own laws?

Should the UK be legislating for Australia say, to ensure there is no political interference there?

Just when you thought the Remainers arguments couldn’t get any worse!

 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by The Voice of Reason
Third para added