Brexit Penny Dropping?

[Non-Believer]

12 hours ago, woolley said:

So let's not muck out our own stables.

Objective mucking out anywhere requires an external body. One cannot expect the UK (particularly under the administration of the past 5 years) to engage in mucking out. Indeed it might be suggested that it was part of the agenda under which Brexit was pushed.

No more than you can expect the IoM Civil Service to voluntarily muck itself out.

And there's been more than enough evidence of that locally in the last 12 months.

[woolley]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Objective mucking out anywhere requires an external body. One cannot expect the UK (particularly under the administration of the past 5 years) to engage in mucking out. Indeed it might be suggested that it was part of the agenda under which Brexit was pushed.

No more than you can expect the IoM Civil Service to voluntarily muck itself out.

And there's been more than enough evidence of that locally in the last 12 months.

Fundamentally disagree. No self-respecting state subjugates itself in this way. In fact, this is the nub of the entire debate. All other considerations pale by comparison.

[manxman1980]

11 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Absolute rot.

So the UK abandons  it’s legal system, deliberately designed to be outside political interference, to one that is created by other countries which have different cultures and circumstances.

Is there any particular EU country (ies) that you think would make a better fist of imposing a legal system on the UK rather than the UK making its own laws?

Should the UK be legislating for Australia say, to ensure there is no political interference there?

Just when you thought the Remainers arguments couldn’t get any worse!

I suggest you go and read up on the Council of Europe, the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights.

You seem to be confusing them with the EU which the UK has left.

I am not making any suggestions as wild as you think.

7 hours ago, woolley said:

Fundamentally disagree. No self-respecting state subjugates itself in this way. In fact, this is the nub of the entire debate. All other considerations pale by comparison.

So in your view every member of the EU and Council of Europe (two different things remember) are not self-respecting states?

[woolley]

10 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

So in your view every member of the EU and Council of Europe (two different things remember) are not self-respecting states?

Well let's be charitable and hope that it's a temporary delusion that afflicts them.

[woolley]

On 12/3/2022 at 1:36 PM, manxman1980 said:

You make me chuckle...

🤣  If I can help somebody as I pass along.......

[The Voice of Reason]

12 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

I suggest you go and read up on the Council of Europe, the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights.

You seem to be confusing them with the EU which the UK has left.

Not at all. I think that anyone who has an interest in the subject knows the difference. 

The nub of the matter is whether any country ( or group of countries) should be able to determine the legal system of another.

As for political influence the self stated aim of the EU for “ever closer union “ would seem to even the most casual of observers a wish to exert just that.

Its a horrifying scenario ( but close cooperation is something most would agree is a good thing).

Thank God  for the Brexit vote. May I respectfully suggest you respect that outcome and stop whining about it.

There are avenues of mutual benefit which the countries of Europe can explore together without this formal straitjacket.

[manxman1980]

30 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Thank God  for the Brexit vote. May I respectfully suggest you respect that outcome and stop whining about it.

I certainly think leaving the EU was a bad idea and I am no fan of the campaign ran by Brexiteers nor of the current UK Government but I don't think I have been "whining" about anything. 

I might point out things that are not working but why should anyone turn  a blind eye to it.

[Max Power]

Just for interest...

 

[John Wright]

21 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Just for interest...

 

A Polish populist, anti gay, pro Catholic Church, anti abortion, member of a party that has demolished Polish judicial independence, stacked the Supreme Court and judicial council with right wing political appointees, reduced the qualifications for civil servants and, again appointed political appointees wholesale.

He’s anti Ukrainian, anti German, encourages municipalities to pass anti LGBT zones.

Theres no truth in what he says. Not even 10 seconds worth.

[Max Power]

12 minutes ago, John Wright said:

A Polish populist, anti gay, pro Catholic Church, anti abortion, member of a party that has demolished Polish judicial independence, stacked the Supreme Court and judicial council with right wing political appointees, reduced the qualifications for civil servants and, again appointed political appointees wholesale.

He’s anti Ukrainian, anti German, encourages municipalities to pass anti LGBT zones.

Theres no truth in what he says. Not even 10 seconds worth.

I've never heard of him, strange how these people get into positions where they can spout off whatever they want to a large audience!

[John Wright]

28 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I've never heard of him, strange how these people get into positions where they can spout off whatever they want to a large audience!

Well, he’s the leader of the “Justice & Law” party in the EU Parliament. It should be called the Injustice & disorder party. It forms the government in Poland. It’s the same sort of paternalistic misogynistic  populism of Trump, Orban, and others. 

A Farageian figure.

But the Woolleys of this world lap it up.

Edited December 10, 2022 by John Wright

[The Voice of Reason]

55 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Well, he’s the leader of the “Justice & Law” party in the EU Parliament. It should be called the Injustice & disorder party. It forms the government in Poland. It’s the same sort of paternalistic misogynistic  populism of Trump, Orban, and others. 

A Farageian figure.

But the Woolleys of this world lap it up.

I’ve never heard of him either. He may be the vile creature that you paint him out to be but what he said about accountability could not be more spot on. 
Just because the words came out of his mouth not someone else’s doesn’t  mean they are not true.

 

 

[woolley]

Interesting how they all look at each other in embarrassment when someone stands up and dares to tell them some home truths.

[John Wright]

7 minutes ago, woolley said:

Interesting how they all look at each other in embarrassment when someone stands up and dares to tell them some home truths.

But there’s no truth. Just opinion, and wrong at that. It is embarrassing that someone, like him, Farage,  Widdecombe et al are willing to partake, take the money and are given the opportunity to express their views.

Lets face it, if it were an assembly run by those who share his views, anyone with a differing view would be excluded and not allowed.

It also shows his, and yours and VoR’s total misconception of form and function of a supra national body. But hey, you’re Brexit loons, you’ll never be anything else. You’re as tiresome as P.K. You’re as much the reason that the debate and relationship won’t advance and normalise.

[The Voice of Reason]

On 11/17/2022 at 2:41 PM, HeliX said:

https://news.sky.com/story/poll-reveals-public-support-for-brexit-at-all-time-low-12749439

Well given that the people who voted for Brexit are apparently inherently stupid why should we give any credence to any subsequent change in their opinion?