Brexit Penny Dropping?

[woolley]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

But there’s no truth. Just opinion, and wrong at that. It is embarrassing that someone, like him, Farage,  Widdecombe et al are willing to partake, take the money and are given the opportunity to express their views.

Lets face it, if it were an assembly run by those who share his views, anyone with a differing view would be excluded and not allowed.

It also shows his, and yours and VoR’s total misconception of form and function of a supra national body. But hey, you’re Brexit loons, you’ll never be anything else. You’re as tiresome as P.K. You’re as much the reason that the debate and relationship won’t advance and normalise.

Of course, Mr Wright. We loons only have opinions, whereas you are the keeper of the inalienable truth. 'Twas ever thus around here.

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

Of course, Mr Wright. We loons only have opinions, whereas you are the keeper of the inalienable truth. 'Twas ever thus around here.

And this is exemplified by the vilification of Mr Legutko or whatever his name is. 
Sure homophobic views are completely unacceptable but is an anti abortion view also thus?
It may conflict with Mr Wrights own views but does it make any holding this view due to ethical or moral considerations make you evil?

Or even being pro Catholic Church?

Its like a Manchester City supporter claiming supremacy over a Manchester United one for no good reason.

Gosh it’s nice to be able to now articulate these views without the fear of sanctions  for “ being cheeky” to a moderator

Edited December 10, 2022 by The Voice of Reason

[woolley]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And this is exemplified by the vilification of Mr Legutko or whatever his name is. 
Sure homophobic views are completely unacceptable but is an anti abortion view also thus?
It may conflict with Mr Wrights own views but does it make any holding this view due to ethical or moral considerations make you evil?

Well I've no time for Catholicism, religion in general for that matter, or anti-abortionists, but each to their own. Having perfectly valid, moral and completely logical, well considered objections to a (particular) supranational organisation may not make you evil, but it does make you a loon apparently. It's because of an almost messianic zeal that afflicts those who espouse the virtues of "the project". It's a bit like a religion in that they cannot see beyond the shining light of its rightful destiny, and they damn all who demur or stand in the way.

[code99]

IMHO, it always matters who the ‘spokesperson’, their character and also the people who they follow. I don’t expect that decent people will ever try to validate their points of view (e.g., about “ruling elites” conspiracies or grievances about “not receiving what was promised” or “losing their freedoms”) by quoting the likes of Harold Shipman or Mussolini, etc.

Likewise, although the old “don’t shoot the messenger” maxim has its merits, when far-right anti-Semites anti-LGBT+ anti-abortion sanctimonious religious loons anti-migrants racists etc start finger pointing at someone else’s supposed culpabilities, I do a bit of deep reflection before giving their assertions any credence. I question what their true intentions were and wonder what their underlying motivations for expressing their toxic thoughts are (one possible interpretation might be that they were just provoking their audience for a bit of personal narcissistic fun).

All this relates to one of my ongoing issues with Brexit – I didn’t and still don’t trust the messengers. Post-Brexit Britain is increasingly becoming broken Britain, and it is increasingly clear that the warnings from so called ‘Project Fear’ were perspicacious all along. Putin was reportedly elated when he heard that the UK was leaving the EU (like his excitement when Trump defeated Hillary Clinton). What therefore personally drove some Brexiteers down the path of damaging both the UK and the EU?

[The Voice of Reason]

48 minutes ago, code99 said:

IMHO, it always matters who the ‘spokesperson’, their character and also the people who they follow. I don’t expect that decent people will ever try to validate their points of view (e.g., about “ruling elites” conspiracies or grievances about “not receiving what was promised” or “losing their freedoms”) by quoting the likes of Harold Shipman or Mussolini, etc.

Likewise, although the old “don’t shoot the messenger” maxim has its merits, when far-right anti-Semites anti-LGBT+ anti-abortion sanctimonious religious loons anti-migrants racists etc start finger pointing at someone else’s supposed culpabilities, I do a bit of deep reflection before giving their assertions any credence. I question what their true intentions were and wonder what their underlying motivations for expressing their toxic thoughts are (one possible interpretation might be that they were just provoking their audience for a bit of personal narcissistic fun).

All this relates to one of my ongoing issues with Brexit – I didn’t and still don’t trust the messengers. Post-Brexit Britain is increasingly becoming broken Britain, and it is increasingly clear that the warnings from so called ‘Project Fear’ were perspicacious all along. Putin was reportedly elated when he heard that the UK was leaving the EU (like his excitement when Trump defeated Hillary Clinton). What therefore personally drove some Brexiteers down the path of damaging both the UK and the EU?

You make some good points but I still don’t think you can automatically dismiss someone’s ideas on one topic because of their views on another.

If you knew, say an anti Vaxer  and you yourself thought that viewpoint a bit mad or possibly dangerous would you dismiss their Brexit views even if they accorded with your own?

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

If you knew, say an anti Vaxer  and you yourself thought that viewpoint a bit mad or possibly dangerous would you dismiss their Brexit views even if they accorded with your own?

I wonder which way anti-vaxxers voted on Brexit (if they voted at all)?

[The Voice of Reason]

6 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

I wonder which way anti-vaxxers voted on Brexit (if they voted at all)?

Be interesting to know if there was any correlation.

Edited December 11, 2022 by The Voice of Reason
Last five words

[Cambon]

On 12/11/2022 at 1:21 PM, manxman1980 said:

I wonder which way anti-vaxxers voted on Brexit (if they voted at all)?

Well, I would have voted to leave and I was pro Covid vaccine until just recently. 

[The Voice of Reason]

23 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Well, I would have voted to leave and I was pro Covid vaccine until just recently. 

I would have voted to leave and am still pro vaccination 

[manxman1980]

30 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Well, I would have voted to leave and I was pro Covid vaccine until just recently. 

 

6 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I would have voted to leave and am still pro vaccination 

My thoughts are that Anti vaxxers probably didn't vote or voted leave.

I have no evidence to support this hypothesis but my theory is as follows;

- Anti-vaxxers tend to be anti-establishment.

- Voting for brexit could be, and is often, seen as a vote against a "ruling elite" and the "establishment".

I do believe, however, that most anti vaxxers wouldn't vote simply on the basis it means engaging with the machinations of the state and would be viewed suspiciously.

I make no assessment on the rights and wrongs of voting brexit.  

 

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, manxman1980 said:

 

My thoughts are that Anti vaxxers probably didn't vote or voted leave.

I have no evidence to support this hypothesis but my theory is as follows;

- Anti-vaxxers tend to be anti-establishment.

- Voting for brexit could be, and is often, seen as a vote against a "ruling elite" and the "establishment".

I do believe, however, that most anti vaxxers wouldn't vote simply on the basis it means engaging with the machinations of the state and would be viewed suspiciously.

I make no assessment on the rights and wrongs of voting brexit.  

 

Hmm, I too will make no comment on the rights and wrongs of voting Brexit but will advance my own hypothesis.

Remainers are happy with the status quo. You could say anti Vaxxers are also happy with the status quo (ie no one had thus far been vaccinated against Covid)

But that would be wrong in so much as the status quo is more that people go along with what the Government suggest, encourage etc.

(After “Caroline” and “Paper Plane” they went a bit rubbish)

[woolley]

3 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 

My thoughts are that Anti vaxxers probably didn't vote or voted leave.

I have no evidence to support this hypothesis but my theory is as follows;

- Anti-vaxxers tend to be anti-establishment.

- Voting for brexit could be, and is often, seen as a vote against a "ruling elite" and the "establishment".

I do believe, however, that most anti vaxxers wouldn't vote simply on the basis it means engaging with the machinations of the state and would be viewed suspiciously.

I make no assessment on the rights and wrongs of voting brexit.  

 

That's actually a very reasonable and intelligent post.

[Thorulf]

Let Jabbed go free, justice for Jabbed....even though it doesn't sound like a Manx name to me. (only people from the north will get this!) 

[P.K.]

[Zarley]

"Made in Singapore by Dyson"

Great stuff! 😂🤣😂🤣😂