Brexit Penny Dropping?

[genericUserName]

3 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I would question whether these were indeed leading Politicians who were pro Brexit.  The ERG are conspicuous by their absence.

Very few of the ERG are leading politicians. Like it or not, people like Michael Howard and Norman Lamont are Brexiteers with geniune gravitas and behind-the-scenes influence.

The ERG, by contrast, have much more in common with the Corbyn wing of the Labour Party. Two sides of the same coin.

Edited February 11, 2023 by genericUserName

[manxman1980]

22 minutes ago, genericUserName said:

Very few of the ERG are leading politicians. Like it or not, people like Michael Howard and Norman Lamont are Brexiteers with geniune gravitas and behind-the-scenes influence.

The ERG, by contrast, have much more in common with the Corbyn wing of the Labour Party. Two sides of the same coin.

Maybe but the Tory party need them onside otherwise they will split the party (again) and lead the Tory party into the political wilderness.

[P.K.]

12 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Maybe but the Tory party need them onside otherwise they will split the party (again) and lead the Tory party into the political wilderness.

And your point is...?

[Moghrey Mie]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:08 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

Furthermore Francis Delaney measured how the visit will be interpreted in Europe.

” I was struck listening to the speech that he made very few references to Brussels, to the EU , France or Germany. It was all about Britain and America. If I’ve been listening to that speech and I was Emmanuel Macron or Olaf Scholz I would’ve felt a little bit embarrassed. He did seem to emphasizing the standard bearers of liberty were America and Britain and everyone  else had effectively let the side down  in the early months of the war”

 

Remember Mr Zelensky is an actor reading from a carefully prepared script.

[genericUserName]

10 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Maybe but the Tory party need them onside otherwise they will split the party (again) and lead the Tory party into the political wilderness.

On the current polling, the SNP will be the official opposition in Westminster after the next General Election.

Britain is heading for a Labour majority government. Reversing Brexit is not an option and the Labour Party knows that. But there will be many sensible and moderate Conservatives, even Brexit leaning Conservatives, who will want to be a part of fixing the current mess.

Building cross-party consensus is a positive thing. And that meeting is clearly close to being official and establishment - given the guest list.

[P.K.]

11 minutes ago, genericUserName said:

On the current polling, the SNP will be the official opposition in Westminster after the next General Election.

Britain is heading for a Labour majority government. Reversing Brexit is not an option and the Labour Party knows that. But there will be many sensible and moderate Conservatives, even Brexit leaning Conservatives, who will want to be a part of fixing the current mess.

Building cross-party consensus is a positive thing. And that meeting is clearly close to being official and establishment - given the guest list.

The ERG are going to get even more gammon-faced than usual at this "betrayal" as they will see it.

Expect intellectual colossus Mark Francois to squeal "This isn't what the British public voted for!" Or similar because, of course, Francois knows them all personally...

[genericUserName]

3 minutes ago, P.K. said:

The ERG are going to get even more gammon-faced than usual at this "betrayal" as they will see it.

Expect intellectual colossus Mark Francois to squeal "This isn't what the British public voted for!" Or similar because, of course, Francois knows them all personally...

I'd rather focus on how sensible people are working together to find ways of moving forward.

[P.K.]

20 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said:

Remember Mr Zelensky is an actor reading from a carefully prepared script.

Remember Mr Zelensky's role in life is to squeeze as much advanced military equipment out of NATO as he can to avoid his entire country being overrun by Putin's thugs who will turn it into a vassal state of Mother Russia...

[P.K.]

2 minutes ago, genericUserName said:

I'd rather focus on how sensible people are working together to find ways of moving forward.

The ERG "sensible people"...!

Good luck with that one...

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

And your point is...?

I am trying not to take sides but frankly I would be happy to see the Tory party consigned to history. 

At least JRM would be in his element. 

In the context of this thread though my point is that we are in for another round of Tory infighting before the next election which doesn't help the nation move forward.

1 hour ago, genericUserName said:

On the current polling, the SNP will be the official opposition in Westminster after the next General Election.

Britain is heading for a Labour majority government. Reversing Brexit is not an option and the Labour Party knows that. But there will be many sensible and moderate Conservatives, even Brexit leaning Conservatives, who will want to be a part of fixing the current mess.

Building cross-party consensus is a positive thing. And that meeting is clearly close to being official and establishment - given the guest list.

I agree that we need a cross parry consensus to move forward. 

My concern is that a very vocal minority will not be happy.  Mark Francois, JRM and Nigel Farage (I know he isn't a Tory member) will scream blue murder from the sidelines and stop any progress.

Remainers whilst vocal tend not to be so obstructive to making changes and compromises that help everyone. 

[P.K.]

Interesting:

[P.K.]

Having looked into it I'm forced to conclude that the map is accurate. That includes the way NI is blue. Which is a little clue, known as a cluette, to one of the main reasons why these shortages are confined to the rest of the UK.

As per it's down to the totally stupid and completely unnecessary brexit.

Well, who knew...?

[genericUserName]

3 hours ago, P.K. said:

it's down to the totally stupid and completely unnecessary brexit.

Yes Brexit has, in the immediate, triggered these food shortages. There can be no denying that. But the underlying reasons are more complex. And they are reasons which should have been addressed which ever way the referendum had gone. Actually - solving this longer term might be a Brexit positive. 

Jay Rayner has written a good piece in The Guardian.

You can blame the weather and Brexit. But there’s more to the UK’s food supply crisis - Jay Rayner, The Guardian

Quote

In a few weeks, perhaps a few months, the current problems will ease. The shelves will fill again. Those with an interest in doing so will insist it was just a blip. It isn’t just a blip. It’s a symptom of a dysfunctional food system. It’s a symptom of an overly mighty supermarket sector failing to behave like the custodian of the food supply chain it has become. And yes, it’s also a symptom of Brexit.

 

[P.K.]

Yes I saw that.

It's unfortunately a story of a basic premise of brexit failing at the first hurdle.

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

Yes I saw that.

It's unfortunately a story of a basic premise of brexit failing at the first hurdle.

Same old tiresome Brexit bashing from Barney
Where does Brexit come into all this?

Contrary to some of the reaction on social media, Brexit has a minimal role to play in the immediate shortage, according to experts.

For example, the British Growers Association says one of the big issues arising from Brexit for the fresh produce sector - attracting workers from EU countries - has been mitigated by the Seasonal Workers Permit Scheme.

“It is more about being able to get back the investment the growers need to make in planting crops and that's where the system has fallen down rather than Brexit,” he added.

The location of the UK and its isolation from mainland Europe, however, has played a significant part and is the differentiator from the situation in EU countries without shortages of fruit and vegetables.

“It is less costly for a supplier to supply to the Netherlands and other countries in the northern part, because they don't have these 25 miles of the English Channel to negotiate because that adds a cost,” said Chris White of Fruit Net.