Brexit Penny Dropping?

[P.K.]

The Telegraph was reduced to "Beano" status by the Barclay brothers with their rabidly anti-EU stance.

In fact it's so bad the remaining brother has been trying to sell it for several years now - no takers.

I wouldn't waste my time on it and I'm surprised that anyone would.

@The Voice of Reason

So what is your explanation for the UK's poor performance compared to the other G7 nations?

Sure someone has to come last but why is it the UK?

[The Voice of Reason]

29 minutes ago, P.K. said:

The Telegraph was reduced to "Beano" status by the Barclay brothers with their rabidly anti-EU stance.

@The Voice of Reason

So the article is just a pack of lies then?

[John Wright]

6 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

So the article is just a pack of lies then?

Tory ERG spin. But, yes, in essence.

[La Colombe]

54% of people in Britain think it was wrong to leave the European Union against 34% who believe it was right. Amazing. I wonder if the imminent border checks will further erode support for the decision? 

[The Voice of Reason]

Another article, no doubt soon to be dismissed as another pack of lies.

 

“We have sinned, and deserve to be punished. We voted for the Tories, and then, horror of horrors, to leave the EU: we are the 52 per cent, the guilty men and women of Brexit. We were warned, and didn’t listen: it is us who brought poverty and pay cuts upon the nation, or so the “grown-ups”, the “sensibles”, that whole useless army of “experts”, civil servants, central bankers and assorted technocrats of all parties are desperate for us to believe.

None of the myriad, debilitating maladies gnawing away at Britain’s soul apparently have anything to do with them. Rampant inflation, feeble growth, our horrendous housing crisis, productivity performance and calamitous reaction to Covid, our disastrous NHS and welfare state, and the fact that we still haven’t recovered from an avoidable financial crisis 15 years ago: it is the voters, egged on by a handful of pro-Brexit demagogues, who are truly responsible, supposedly, not the ruling class.

Pardon my sarcasm, but this self-serving, righteous cant has become too much to bear. It is the opposite of the truth, a delusional indictment of an intellectually bankrupt, wretched elite afflicted by a hopeless Remainer institutional mind virus. Overwhelmed by our national problems, they find it easier to see everything through the prism of our departure from the EU, and cannot imagine a solution to our woes that doesn’t involve rejoining. The result is a self-fulfilling prophecy: decline begets decline, and nobody is proposing any genuine reforms to return our country to prosperity.

Despite Tory pusillanimity, the gains from leaving the EU are becoming clearer, in the form of policies that would have been legally or psychologically impossible to execute while part of the EU. This growing list includes the early vaccine success, Aukus, joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership (a huge moment which will automatically lead to divergence from the EU Acquis), new agricultural and fisheries policies, and forthcoming regulatory improvements in finance, tech and elsewhere. “

[John Wright]

13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Another article, no doubt soon to be dismissed as another pack of lies.

 

“We have sinned, and deserve to be punished. We voted for the Tories, and then, horror of horrors, to leave the EU: we are the 52 per cent, the guilty men and women of Brexit. We were warned, and didn’t listen: it is us who brought poverty and pay cuts upon the nation, or so the “grown-ups”, the “sensibles”, that whole useless army of “experts”, civil servants, central bankers and assorted technocrats of all parties are desperate for us to believe.

None of the myriad, debilitating maladies gnawing away at Britain’s soul apparently have anything to do with them. Rampant inflation, feeble growth, our horrendous housing crisis, productivity performance and calamitous reaction to Covid, our disastrous NHS and welfare state, and the fact that we still haven’t recovered from an avoidable financial crisis 15 years ago: it is the voters, egged on by a handful of pro-Brexit demagogues, who are truly responsible, supposedly, not the ruling class.

Pardon my sarcasm, but this self-serving, righteous cant has become too much to bear. It is the opposite of the truth, a delusional indictment of an intellectually bankrupt, wretched elite afflicted by a hopeless Remainer institutional mind virus. Overwhelmed by our national problems, they find it easier to see everything through the prism of our departure from the EU, and cannot imagine a solution to our woes that doesn’t involve rejoining. The result is a self-fulfilling prophecy: decline begets decline, and nobody is proposing any genuine reforms to return our country to prosperity.

Despite Tory pusillanimity, the gains from leaving the EU are becoming clearer, in the form of policies that would have been legally or psychologically impossible to execute while part of the EU. This growing list includes the early vaccine success, Aukus, joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership (a huge moment which will automatically lead to divergence from the EU Acquis), new agricultural and fisheries policies, and forthcoming regulatory improvements in finance, tech and elsewhere. “

Not lies. Meaningless drivel.

[P.K.]

5 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Another article, no doubt soon to be dismissed as another pack of lies.

“We have sinned, and deserve to be punished. We voted for the Tories, and then, horror of horrors, to leave the EU plus more childish bollox in the same vein..."

Just more nonsense from the Sunday Telegraph's editor Allister Heath.

I noticed that he took a lot of flak for this just this morning but you only had to see the totally pathetic headline of the piece to understand why:

Edited April 27, 2023 by P.K.

[manxman1980]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:32 AM, The Voice of Reason said:

The moral of the Horizon saga is that the EU needs the UK more than Brussels supposed in the first flush of post-Brexit triumphalism, just as it needs the UK more than it ever imagined to prevent Putin reconstituting the Russian tsarist empire.

I thought it was the UK Government who decided to withdraw from Horizon as well as several other pan European organisations (ERASMUS and another Nuclear body)?  Anyone willing to fact check that?

The threat of Russia was always going to require a pan European response (not just the EU).  The UK intervention in Ukraine would  not have been sufficient without other European nations also offering support.

Final point...

The UK made a pact with Poland pre WW2 to come to its aid if it was invaded.  Guess what?  The UK shouted a little and didn't deliver. Any nation placing trust in this Tory Government probably needs their head wobbling.

 

[genericUserName]

1 hour ago, manxman1980 said:

The UK made a pact with Poland pre WW2 to come to its aid if it was invaded.  Guess what?  The UK shouted a little and didn't deliver.

London declared war on Germany as a result of Poland being invaded. What more could it have done?

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 

Final point...

The UK made a pact with Poland pre WW2 to come to its aid if it was invaded.  Guess what?  The UK shouted a little and didn't deliver. Any nation placing trust in this Tory Government probably needs their head wobbling.

 

Didn’t deliver?

Tell that to the ancestors of all those who lost their lives in WW2. The widows, the fatherless. 
 

That is a gross insult.
 

Do you know anything about modern history?

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

I thought it was the UK Government who decided to withdraw from Horizon as well as several other pan European organisations (ERASMUS and another Nuclear body)?  Anyone willing to fact check that?

The threat of Russia was always going to require a pan European response (not just the EU).  The UK intervention in Ukraine would  not have been sufficient without other European nations also offering support.

Final point...

The UK made a pact with Poland pre WW2 to come to its aid if it was invaded.  Guess what?  The UK shouted a little and didn't deliver. Any nation placing trust in this Tory Government probably needs their head wobbling.

 

Just for your education 

The news that Britain was at war was broken by Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain at 11.15am on Sunday 3 September 1939. In a 5 minute broadcast on the Home Service, he announced that as Hitler had failed to respond to British demands to leave Poland, "This country is at war with Germany". 

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 

 The UK intervention in Ukraine would  not have been sufficient without other European nations also offering support.

Or even the USA. Not quite sure what you’re getting at. 

All three, the UK, US and the EU ( and others) have all been supportive of Ukraine

[manxman1980]

9 hours ago, genericUserName said:

London declared war on Germany as a result of Poland being invaded. What more could it have done?

 

8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Didn’t deliver?

Tell that to the ancestors of all those who lost their lives in WW2. The widows, the fatherless. 
 

That is a gross insult.
 

Do you know anything about modern history?

 

8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Just for your education 

The news that Britain was at war was broken by Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain at 11.15am on Sunday 3 September 1939. In a 5 minute broadcast on the Home Service, he announced that as Hitler had failed to respond to British demands to leave Poland, "This country is at war with Germany". 

The publicist Stanisław Mackiewicz stated in the late 1940s, "To accept London's guarantees was one of the most tragic dates in the history of Poland. It was a mental aberration and madness". On the same day that Britain pledged its support of Poland, Lord Halifax stated, "We do not think this guarantee will be binding".^{[citation needed]} Another British diplomat, Alexander Cadogan, wrote in his diary: "Naturally, our guarantee does not give any help to Poland. It can be said that it was cruel to Poland, even cynical".

[woolley]

On 4/27/2023 at 9:12 AM, La Colombe said:

54% of people in Britain think it was wrong to leave the European Union against 34% who believe it was right. Amazing. I wonder if the imminent border checks will further erode support for the decision? 

Of course they do. People are pretty shallow and they invariably blame their trials and tribulations on the status quo. Before Brexit it was the EU. Now it's Brexit! They pay no heed to the damage caused by the pandemic and its aftermath, and the war in Europe that has caused rising commodity prices throughout the world.

[woolley]

On 4/27/2023 at 1:06 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

Another article, no doubt soon to be dismissed as another pack of lies.

You're right, but you're wasting your time. I banged my head against this particular wall daily for years before I got the message. Ironically, they think that they are right and you are stupid. They support the EU with evangelical zeal and always will. That's all there is really 7 years on.

Edited April 29, 2023 by woolley