Brexit Penny Dropping?

[woolley]

16 hours ago, P.K. said:

If there was an EU regulation or whatever that we didn't like we had a veto which would kill it stone dead. In other words the above situation should never happen.

How is it you don't know this?

 

No matter how many times you repeat this, and there have been plenty, it is still a barefaced lie. You know what I mean by that. It's the sort of thing beloved of totally amoral, narcissistic serial philanderer, and inveterate liar Boris Johnson. Whenever this is pointed out to you, you blithely deflect onto another of your 68,248 reasons for being in the EU whereas this huge issue trumps every single one of them. I will say that if it were as you suggest, I would theoretically have far less difficulty with the idea of EU membership, but sadly it simply isn't so, and if it were that way, they would never get anything through the parliament anyway. There would always be at least one country objecting.

Go and study qualified majority voting in the EU Parliament. The UK sent 73 MEPs out of a total of 751, so even if all of them rejected a proposal they could easily be outvoted. When this happens, which is routinely, the member states have no choice but to accept it and nod it through their national parliaments. The primacy of EU Law over those of the member states is a long established principle.

80% of EU legislation is adopted by qualified majority voting.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/qualified-majority/

The few exceptions include national taxation matters and accession of new members - for now.

ETA: Interesting further consideration of the primacy of EU law: https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/administrative-law/doctrine-of-supremacy-of-european-union-administrative-law-essay.php

Edited May 1, 2023 by woolley

[P.K.]

30 minutes ago, woolley said:

Whenever this is pointed out to you, you blithely deflect onto another of your 68,248 reasons for being in the EU whereas this huge issue trumps every single one of them.

The few exceptions include national taxation matters and accession of new members - for now.

Did you read the 90-odd EU losses that brexit has forced upon us?

I didn't, I just don't have the time!

Anyway there's more than a few exceptions old boy. And you know it...

Come off it Woolster. Even you have to admit that during the UK's 47-year tenure adopting EU frameworks was never a problem now was it...? However if the EU pushed the envelope too far, like coming away from Maastricht having to adopt the Euro, I would have been one of the first at the barricades.

Essentially, unlike our own domestic government, they were never stupid enough to put forward anything that the member states would find contentious enough to refuse. I personally put that down to the pretty impossible ask of a "one size fits all" regime which has to take a lot of factors into account forcing a broad brush approach.

In other words your fears are yet to materialise. My personal view is that they never will if the EU wants to continue as a bloc. However if they did then would be the time to leave. Not now.

Because to turn your back on the biggest and best trading block on the planet that sits right on your doorstep for fear of something that may never happen is just sheer stupidity.

[woolley]

So you accept that your point about being able to veto anything we didn't like is a lie then? Good.

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

Did you read the 90-odd EU losses that brexit has forced upon us?

I didn't, I just don't have the time!

Well if you are to post something which you think supports your argument it perhaps might be a good idea to read it first!

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

So you accept that your point about being able to veto anything we didn't like is a lie then? Good.

We can't veto everything that's true. But we still have a veto for the issues that count.

And the basic premise remains the same.

Admit it. Leaving the biggest and best trading bloc on the planet that sits right on our doorstep which makes it harder to trade with them just in case we have to leave them maybe decades later was bloody stupid...

Edited May 1, 2023 by P.K.

[P.K.]

5 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well if you are to post something which you think supports your argument it perhaps might be a good idea to read it first!

Why bother when I've got someone desperate to diss it to do it for me..

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

Why bother when I've got someone desperate to diss it to do it for me..

I think you mean someone to explain it to you😀

Edited May 1, 2023 by The Voice of Reason

[Ringy Rose]

9 hours ago, P.K. said:

Essentially, unlike our own domestic government, they were never stupid enough to put forward anything that the member states would find contentious enough to refuse. I personally put that down to the pretty impossible ask of a "one size fits all" regime which has to take a lot of factors into account forcing a broad brush approach.

Agreed.

The Commission put forward the legislation, and the Commission only put forward legislation where they know it will be broadly supported. The Member States directly appoint their own Commissioner.

It’s exactly the same principle as how the Government put forward legislation for the MPs/MHKs to vote on. They don’t do it if they don’t have the support.

As with anything in life, this results in compromise. And compromise is where nobody gets exactly what they want.

I find pretty much all the anti-EU arguments bizarre. But then, as repeated studies showed, people who are anti-EU are generally less educated. I know we’re not supposed to call Brexitists stupid because it upsets them, but if the cap fits.

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Ringy Rose

[woolley]

14 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

Agreed.

The Commission put forward the legislation, and the Commission only put forward legislation where they know it will be broadly supported. The Member States directly appoint their own Commissioner.

It’s exactly the same principle as how the Government put forward legislation for the MPs/MHKs to vote on. They don’t do it if they don’t have the support.

As with anything in life, this results in compromise. And compromise is where nobody gets exactly what they want.

I find pretty much all the anti-EU arguments bizarre. But then, as repeated studies showed, people who are anti-EU are generally less educated. I know we’re not supposed to call Brexitists stupid because it upsets them, but if the cap fits.

 

I'm afraid the cap doesn't fit at all, and I never get upset by name calling emanating from the ignorant. This is merely the conceit of the more simpleminded Remainers that they are obviously right and therefore anyone who takes the contrary view is stupid. Easy to fit that into a small brain.

Except that I know a lot more about the EU than most people I speak to on the subject who are concerned only with the minutiae of a traffic queue at the border. They don't look past the superficial or to the future.

[La Colombe]

 

Wow. 86% of 18-25 year olds support joining the EU. That's pretty emphatic. Amazing. Just a matter of time really. 

[The Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, La Colombe said:

 

Wow. 86% of 18-25 year olds support joining the EU. That's pretty emphatic. Amazing. Just a matter of time really. 

That’s just because they are stupid, don’t understand the facts and have been lied to etc etc

Edited May 4, 2023 by The Voice of Reason
Understand

[La Colombe]

Ah yes, that must be it. 

[La Colombe]

 

[woolley]

8 hours ago, La Colombe said:

 

Wow. 86% of 18-25 year olds support joining the EU. That's pretty emphatic. Amazing. Just a matter of time really. 

The immature always have wacky ideas about everything. It's part of the joy of youth. They are lucky to have older, wiser heads to save them from themselves. And a matter of time for what? Now that we have 44 years of experience of the EU from the inside to draw on, there is no way that the powers that be will ever relinquish their reasserted power to outsiders and get into that situation again.

[genericUserName]

3 hours ago, woolley said:

Now that we have 44 years of experience of the EU from the inside to draw on, there is no way that the powers that be will ever relinquish their reasserted power to outsiders and get into that situation again.

Bit by bit England has already begun the inevitable process of winding its neck in. And recently the London government has quietly dropped its populist headline plan to scrap 4,000 EU laws (many of which London had been instrumental in writing). What a con the whole thing has been.

A significant majority of the public now believes that Brexit was a mistake. People increasingly associate it with red tape, a lower standard of living, food shortages, national decline, economic hardship etc. What a hugely expensive own goal.

Meanwhile in the EU, there is no longer any significant political support for other countries also leaving. The EU's populist and fringe parties no longer campaign in favour of leaving. Just a few years ago the Brexit grifters were on the BBC almost every day talking about how Britain's exit would quickly lead to a collapse in support for the EU. The opposite has happened. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by genericUserName