Brexit Penny Dropping?

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, genericUserName said:

Bit by bit England has already begun the inevitable process of winding its neck in. And recently the London government has quietly dropped its populist headline plan to scrap 4,000 EU laws (many of which London had been instrumental in writing). What a con the whole thing has been.

A significant majority of the public now believes that Brexit was a mistake. People increasingly associate it with red tape, a lower standard of living, food shortages, national decline, economic hardship etc. What a hugely expensive own goal.

Meanwhile in the EU, there is no longer any significant political support for other countries also leaving. The EU's populist and fringe parties no longer campaign in favour of leaving. Just a few years ago the Brexit grifters were on the BBC almost every day talking about how Britain's exit would quickly lead to a collapse in support for the EU. The opposite has happened. 

The EU hoped the chaotic example of Brexit had left European euroscepticism as dead as Monty Python’s parrot. 

But, much like the Norwegian Blue with beautiful plumage, it was just resting. 

Brexit was not the have-your-cakewalk some politicians predicted. 

Faced with fears of a domino effect, Brussels had to demonstrate the virtues of EU membership and the foolishness of leaving it. 

The negotiations were tough and occasionally humiliating for the UK, while the EU showed a unity that had been noticeably absent for years.

As London stumbled out on a wing and a prayer, continental europhobes swapped demands for an EU exit to calls for reforms. 

Marine Le Pen stopped championing a Frexit referendum ahead of last April’s presidential elections in France after it played badly in the 2017 race for the Élysée.

Hungary’s Viktor Orban and Poland’s Mateusz Morawiecki fought many battles with Brussels but both leaders make crystal clear they have no plans to leave the EU.

The lesson of Brexit seems well-taught. But did Brexit teach people in Europe to love the EU? 

Next year’s European Parliament elections, the first since the UK left, will be an interesting indicator of that. 

Will Eurosceptic parties build on or lose support after they proved their breakthrough successes in 2014 were not a one off in the last elections in 2019? 

No credible European politicians are openly backing their own version of Brexit. 

Even if they did, the chances of their countries following the UK out of the bloc in the near future are incredibly slim. 

But there are signs of a growing assertiveness among eurosceptics after the muted Brexit years, and, paradoxically, as UK-EU relations improve. 

Sweden Democrats leader Jimmie Åkesson floated the idea of Swexit this week.

“EU membership is becoming dangerously similar to a straitjacket that we simply must accept,” he said, “We can’t have that.”

Mr Åkesson may not be in government but his opinion matters. 

The minority coalition government is propped up by the Sweden Democrats, who were the big winners in last September’s election. 

The hard-Right party was very influential in the coalition government agreement, which included a crackdown on immigration unprecedented in famously liberal Sweden. 

The Finns Party, which has a long history of staunch euroscepticism, is on the cusp of entering government after becoming the second largest party in Finland after elections on April 2. 

In the Netherlands, the populist Farmers-Citizen Movement (BBB) won a landslide victory in regional elections after furious Dutch farmers protested against compulsory farm buyouts to hit EU climate targets. 

Europe’s Brussels-bashers went quiet after Brexit.

But they didn’t kick the bucket, shuffle off this mortal coil or join the choir invisible. They were just pining.

There’s life in the old birds yet.

[woolley]

It should have its wings clipped as a free trade area and absolutely nothing more, not a megastate in waiting. Then all would be well.

[P.K.]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:46 PM, woolley said:

It should have its wings clipped as a free trade area and absolutely nothing more, not a megastate in waiting. Then all would be well.

@woolley

All was well for the UK when we stupidly left!

Where do you get this idea from that the EU is run by evil Goblins intent on world domination...?

We were doing very nicely thank you very much indeedy. So why leave?

IF

(that's a big if) the EU tried to push through policy that was unpalatable to the UK then THAT would be the time to leave. Frankly I'm sure that if that time ever came the UK would not be the only one going which would mean the end of the biggest and best trading bloc on the planet.

For those who can afford the The Economist subscription or know how to circumvent it:

After seven years of Brexit talks, Europe has emerged as the clear winner

https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/03/02/after-seven-years-of-brexit-talks-europe-has-emerged-as-the-clear-winner

[woolley]

There are no winners with the EU.

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

There are no winners with the EU.

Oh dear, another glib empty soundbite from a brexiteer.

If the EU is so full of losers why is it folks want to join...?

Now back to the main question:

Why leave the EU when the UK was doing so well?

[The Voice of Reason]

On 5/7/2023 at 11:32 PM, P.K. said:

Oh dear, another glib empty soundbite from a brexiteer.

If the EU is so full of losers why is it folks want to join...?

Could it be that they want to be  net beneficiaries from the financial inflow and out flow of funds to/ from the EU? And who could blame them for that? 
(Once those bureaucrats in Brussels and Strasbourg have had their fill from the trough of course)

Edited May 9, 2023 by The Voice of Reason

[The Voice of Reason]

For Brexit Barneys into. I am writing this from a major European city.

Flew into the airport, presented my lovely new deep blue/black passport ( can’t decide which it is) passport control. Rather than just checking it was me on the passport the customs officer checked it was me and stamped my  passport which took a whole half second longer than it did pre Brexit. Those pesky Brexiteers just want to make difficult, don’t they?

Edited May 9, 2023 by The Voice of Reason

[manxman1980]

10 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

For Brexit Barneys into. I am writing this from a major European city.

Flew into the airport, presented my lovely new deep blue/black passport ( can’t decide which it is) passport control. Rather than just checking it was me on the passport the customs officer checked it was me and stamped my  passport which took a whole half second longer than it did pre Brexit. Those pesky Brexiteers just want to make difficult, don’t they?

Depending on which European City that isn't a surprise at this time of year.  Try again during the school holidays and see if your experience is the same.

For context I have been to Lyon and Rzeszow and didn't encounter any particular issue but again neither time was peak season.

[P.K.]

15 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

For Brexit Barneys into. I am writing this from a major European city.

Flew into the airport, presented my lovely new deep blue/black passport ( can’t decide which it is) passport control. Rather than just checking it was me on the passport the customs officer checked it was me and stamped my  passport which took a whole half second longer than it did pre Brexit. Those pesky Brexiteers just want to make difficult, don’t they?

What a classic "Little Englander" thing to post!

As to the "lovely" passport:

 The new passports are being made by the Franco-Dutch firm Gemalto at its site in Tczew, Poland.

“I actually like the French-designed Polish-printed new UK passport,” former Remain-backing MEP Seb Dance said after the launch. “Of course the previous one – which allowed Brits the right to work, study and retire freely across their own continent – was probably more useful.”

The prospect of a return to blue passports became a divisive subplot during the UK’s bitter EU referendum in 2016 and its torturous attempts to leave the bloc in the years since – and those battle lines were re-drawn after the launch was confirmed.

Brexiteers have frequently painted the move as a way to reclaim British identity and freedom from the EU, while Remainers saw it as a petty and inward-looking obsession... (see above)

[woolley]

7 hours ago, P.K. said:

What a classic "Little Englander" thing to post!

As to the "lovely" passport:

 The new passports are being made by the Franco-Dutch firm Gemalto at its site in Tczew, Poland.

“I actually like the French-designed Polish-printed new UK passport,” former Remain-backing MEP Seb Dance said after the launch. “Of course the previous one – which allowed Brits the right to work, study and retire freely across their own continent – was probably more useful.”

The prospect of a return to blue passports became a divisive subplot during the UK’s bitter EU referendum in 2016 and its torturous attempts to leave the bloc in the years since – and those battle lines were re-drawn after the launch was confirmed.

Brexiteers have frequently painted the move as a way to reclaim British identity and freedom from the EU, while Remainers saw it as a petty and inward-looking obsession... (see above)

It's just minutiae. It doesn't matter.

[Mr. Sausages]

 

[The Voice of Reason]

8 hours ago, P.K. said:

What a classic "Little Englander" thing to post!

As to the "lovely" passport:

 The new passports are being made by the Franco-Dutch firm Gemalto at its site in Tczew, Poland.

 

And your point is?

People of all EU nations are buying stuff designed and/or produced in th UK.

Is that a problem for you?

[manxman1980]

25 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And your point is?

People of all EU nations are buying stuff designed and/or produced in th UK.

Is that a problem for you?

Genuine question but what does the UK design and produce?  A secondary question...  how much of that is unique to the UK and could not be replicated elsewhere?

My experience in the UK has been a lot of supply chain businesses that were reliant on the easy movement of goods back and forwards between the UK and European nations.  I have seen a number of UK factories closed and moved to Europe, both pre and post brexit, due to the operational costs in the UK.

Even the new Nuclear Power Stations are being built by a French Company backed by Chinese money with a lot of French owned companies in the supply chain.

[Albert Tatlock]

10 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Genuine question but what does the UK design and produce? 

Debt.

[John Wright]

51 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And your point is?

People of all EU nations are buying stuff designed and/or produced in th UK.

Is that a problem for you?

All these goods and services, designed or made in GB, are now harder to sell in the EU, because they need extra paperwork, duties, Homologation, or simply no longer comply to be sold into the single market. 

That either puts up the price, or makes purchasers in the EU say they can’t be bothered. 

We’ve no other markets to sell into.

It’s the same with passports. No, stamping and checking the stamps to see when you last entered and exited Schengen May take only a few seconds longer. Say 30 seconds per person. But a ferry load of 1000 people with 4 immigration lanes  - that’s, well, I’ll let you do the maths. It’s 6 hours 20 minutes. Say 90 minutes extra per lane for the last off. Plus random regular vehicle checks which didn’t  happen as frequently because we were in the customs Union and single market.

Then there are things like an AHC instead of a pet passport. £250 a pop on IoM, valid for one trip, instead of the life of your dog.

And of course, the passport thing is just a start. It’ll be the visa waiver/electronic visa scheme next with need to register biometrics and have them scanned every time. 

And so it goes, on and on.

We are where we are. No going back. I accept than. It’s not realistic to rejoin or even join up to the customs union or single market. Even if the majority of Brits want that. The EU is coping well without us. They won’t have us back, for decades. By then the damage will have been done.

You are still not able to point to one single advantage Brexit has conferred on GB. Except to point to sovereignty and freedom from Brussels. Brussels that, with UK input, created the customs union and single market.

We certainly aren’t able to control our borders any more than we could.

Even the Tories now realise we can’t get rid of the EU regulations. The bill is dead. But we’ve imposed onto manufacturing another layer of red tape and bureaucracy. The exact opposite of what brexiteers promised.

Its time you realised that you were lied to, sold a pup, and that the oven ready Brexit deal sold Britain and its economy down the river, or, lemming like, over the precipice.

Ive no idea where we go from here. I don’t think anyone does. We are starting from the wrong place.

Perhaps if we’d stayed in the customs union and single market for 10 years and disengaged slowly, which is what Farage and Rees Mogg where proposing until they won the referendum and realised there wasn’t a plan, there was a vacuum at the centre of British politics, and they perverted things for their own private ends.