Brexit Penny Dropping?

[P.K.]

4 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Would I be right in thinking this is part of the Remain agenda to paint those who voted for Brexit as haters of our European brethren?

Nothing could be further from the truth. It’s the institution of the EU Brexiteers rail against, not the citizens of the constituent countries.

In my experience the vast majority of those who voted to leave the EU haven't the faintest idea how the Commission works.

Instead they believe the years and years of complete and utter garbage fed to them by the owners of the Express, the Mail, the Sun and the Telegraph. So basically they're railing against a load of lies reinforced by Messrs Farage, Gove and Johnson.

Mugs.

Edited May 26, 2023 by P.K.

[woolley]

22 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Meanwhile Braverman suggests that we should be training British workers to pick fruit.  I am sure that parents really want to know that is something that the UK Government has in mind for their children. 

I get your point, but I do find it distasteful when it is suggested that the British are somehow born to be above fulfilling the less pleasant functions that need to be attended to in every society, such as fruit picking and staffing care homes, for instance. Less worthy people from elsewhere can apparently be expected to pick up the slack and be glad of the opportunity to serve. These jobs are perfectly respectable, if grossly under rewarded, and far more valuable to the common good than lots of British workers who sit on their dead ends among legions in offices achieving nothing of worth whatsoever. God forbid we get our own hands dirty.

[woolley]

16 hours ago, P.K. said:

In my experience the vast majority of those who voted to leave the EU haven't the faintest idea how the Commission works.

Instead they believe the years and years of complete and utter garbage fed to them by the owners of the Express, the Mail, the Sun and the Telegraph. So basically they're railing against a load of lies reinforced by Messrs Farage, Gove and Johnson.

Mugs.

Rinse, repeat, 6 years on. Got staying power, I'll give you that.

[P.K.]

41 minutes ago, woolley said:

Rinse, repeat, 6 years on. Got staying power, I'll give you that.

I personally think that everyone should be very angry about the way they were conned by unscrupulous politicians and appalling newspapers slavishly promoting the agenda of the owner. Face it, the totally unnecessary and completely stupid brexit even eclipsed the disgusting Thatcher creature in deeply polarising the UK.

Now the war in Ukraine and the pandemic can no longer be blamed for the sorry state of the UK economy those who voted brexit should hang their heads in shame...

[P.K.]

53 minutes ago, woolley said:

I get your point, but I do find it distasteful when it is suggested that the British are somehow born to be above fulfilling the less pleasant functions that need to be attended to in every society, such as fruit picking and staffing care homes, for instance. Less worthy people from elsewhere can apparently be expected to pick up the slack and be glad of the opportunity to serve. These jobs are perfectly respectable, if grossly under rewarded, and far more valuable to the common good than lots of British workers who sit on their dead ends among legions in offices achieving nothing of worth whatsoever. God forbid we get our own hands dirty.

@woolley

Unfortunately the "all work is honourable" ethos died when Thatcher made a virtue out of greed...

[woolley]

36 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I personally think that everyone should be very angry about the way they were conned by unscrupulous politicians and appalling newspapers slavishly promoting the agenda of the owner. Face it, the totally unnecessary and completely stupid brexit even eclipsed the disgusting Thatcher creature in deeply polarising the UK.

Now the war in Ukraine and the pandemic can no longer be blamed for the sorry state of the UK economy those who voted brexit should hang their heads in shame...

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Trade with Europe continues despite EU ntbs.

[woolley]

32 minutes ago, P.K. said:

@woolley

Unfortunately the "all work is honourable" ethos died when Thatcher made a virtue out of greed...

Has nothing to do with the point I made.

[P.K.]

20 minutes ago, woolley said:

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Trade with Europe continues despite EU ntbs.

I guess that's the nearest we will ever get to you admitting it's been a total clusterfuck...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2018/jul/24/two-50-or-100-years-when-do-leavers-think-brexit-will-pay-off

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

I get your point, but I do find it distasteful when it is suggested that the British are somehow born to be above fulfilling the less pleasant functions that need to be attended to in every society, such as fruit picking and staffing care homes, for instance. Less worthy people from elsewhere can apparently be expected to pick up the slack and be glad of the opportunity to serve. These jobs are perfectly respectable, if grossly under rewarded, and far more valuable to the common good than lots of British workers who sit on their dead ends among legions in offices achieving nothing of worth whatsoever. God forbid we get our own hands dirty.

You are right.  There is nothing wrong with that work and there is no reason why Brita couldn't and shouldn't do the work.

Braverman, and her ilk, would not have any of their own family working in the fields though.

It is, however, perfectly acceptable for the riff raff to do.

[woolley]

4 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

You are right.  There is nothing wrong with that work and there is no reason why Brita couldn't and shouldn't do the work.

Braverman, and her ilk, would not have any of their own family working in the fields though.

It is, however, perfectly acceptable for the riff raff to do.

Thank you. We agree on something. So how does her view differ from yours? The only variance I can see is that you think it's perfectly acceptable for the foreign riff raff to do.

[woolley]

5 hours ago, P.K. said:

I guess that's the nearest we will ever get to you admitting it's been a total clusterfuck...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2018/jul/24/two-50-or-100-years-when-do-leavers-think-brexit-will-pay-off

Well I won't because I don't think it has. It isn't a matter of it "paying off". Independence is an agreeable state of being for its own sake, but as I said earlier, trade with Europe carries on as before. 

[manxman1980]

10 minutes ago, woolley said:

Thank you. We agree on something. So how does her view differ from yours? The only variance I can see is that you think it's perfectly acceptable for the foreign riff raff to do.

My view differs because I would not be trying to make out that these jobs require much in the way of training. 

The reality is it is hardwork, most of the training is how to do the job safely and without damaging the crop/harvest.

It is not like we are going to be training a whole generation of farmers.  We are talking about fruit and vegetable pickers which as we have agreed is low paid and hard work.  It also doesn't offer much in the way of a career.

As it is also seasonal work you have to wonder what these people will do once trained for the rest of the year...

This type of work suits students and people who will move from one job to another and from one country to another depending on what needs doing.

[woolley]

2 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

My view differs because I would not be trying to make out that these jobs require much in the way of training. 

The reality is it is hardwork, most of the training is how to do the job safely and without damaging the crop/harvest.

It is not like we are going to be training a whole generation of farmers.  We are talking about fruit and vegetable pickers which as we have agreed is low paid and hard work.  It also doesn't offer much in the way of a career.

As it is also seasonal work you have to wonder what these people will do once trained for the rest of the year...

This type of work suits students and people who will move from one job to another and from one country to another depending on what needs doing.

There is something unwholesome about deciding that as a nation you are above doing work that is necessary. It's decadence. Last days of the Roman Empire stuff. The work should be respected and properly rewarded.

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

There is something unwholesome about deciding that as a nation you are above doing work that is necessary. It's decadence. Last days of the Roman Empire stuff. The work should be respected and properly rewarded.

Again we agree.  Unfortunately that does not change the fact that the work is low skilled, low paid and seasonal.

The nature of the work also means many people will not want to do it.  It is hard, demanding and outdoors.

I really want to be clear though that you are misrepresenting my position.   I am not advocating using immigrant labour to do this type of job. 

I am merely stating the fact that since introducing the new visa system the available pool of people to do the work has shrunk massively.  I also don't like Braverman's posturing on training Brits to do the work as if this is going to fix unemployment,  fix the economy and provide fulfilling careers.

[Mr. Sausages]

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Mr. Sausages