Brexit Penny Dropping?

[John Wright]

24 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

@John Wright it must be costing a small fortune to keep updating all of the Foreign Secretaries never mind the Monarch!  

They haven’t named the FS since before WW1.

Ive my great grandfather’s passport on a sheet of parchment from 1860. Marquess of Salisbury is named.

[manxman1980]

22 minutes ago, John Wright said:

They haven’t named the FS since before WW1.

Ive my great grandfather’s passport on a sheet of parchment from 1860. Marquess of Salisbury is named.

I must read the quoted part closer!  And that makes perfect sense.

Essentially all that has changed then is;

1. Removed EU from the Passport;

2. Changed the colour (which we could have done anyway);

3. Dropped from 1st (2014) to 6th (2023) in the listing of the world most powerful passports.

and something about Sovereignty! 

[The Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 

and something about Sovereignty! 

“ Sovereignty is understood worldwide as the rights and power of a governing body to govern itself, it’s people and  its land without outside interference”

It’s not just some wishy washy concept as you would try to have us believe, with your scorn.

ETA  from your nom de plume “ Manxman 1980” I assume you are a Manx man ( or woman, who knows in these times?). Would you be happy to cede more power over the IOM to the UK Westminster government? Whilst being quite happy for the UK to subjugate itself to the EU?

Edited May 31, 2023 by The Voice of Reason

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

“ Sovereignty is understood worldwide as the rights and power of a governing body to govern itself, it’s people and  its land without outside interference”

It’s not just some wishy washy concept as you would try to have us believe, with your scorn.

ETA  from your nom de plume “ Manxman 1980” I assume you are a Manx man ( or woman, who knows in these times?). Would you be happy to cede more power over the IOM to the UK Westminster government? Whilst being quite happy for the UK to subjugate itself to the EU?

Strangely enough I had considered asking you if you would you support full Manx indepence?

I would love it to happen and move away from our subjugation to an unelected and hereditary leader (the Lord of Mann).  We also still fall under some control of a foreign parliament (Westminster) in which we have no representation. 

We could then truly be "thy throne of home rule".

I am,  however,  realistic enough to recognise that this could be a potentially stupid decision for a whole host of reasons. 

[bassboy]

its the USD thats the major problem they just keep printing more

[The Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, bassboy said:

its the USD thats the major problem they just keep printing more

Well they should stop it.

[P.K.]

12 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

“ Sovereignty is understood worldwide as the rights and power of a governing body to govern itself, it’s people and  its land without outside interference”

It’s not just some wishy washy concept as you would try to have us believe, with your scorn.

Yes it is as it's given away on every trade deal the UK makes.

Like this one:

UK’s post-Brexit trade deals with Australia and New Zealand kick in today

The trade agreements – the first of those negotiated after Britain’s EU exit to enter into force – come after George Eustice, who was the environment secretary when the UK-Australia trade pact was struck in December 2021, admitted it was “not actually a very good deal” for Britain.

The government’s own calculations estimate that the deal will have a negligible long-term contribution to the British economy, forecasting it will increase UK GDP by only 0.08%, or £2.3bn a year, by 2035.

Special shipments of British goods such as signed Beano comics will be among the first to be sent under the new arrangements.

Well "Phew!" for that.

Compared to the £115bn hole the completely stupid and totally unnecessary brexit made in the UK's GDP £2.3bn by 2035 is sod-all...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/31/uk-post-brexit-trade-deals-with-australia-and-new-zealand-kick-in

[The Voice of Reason]

22 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Strangely enough I had considered asking you if you would you support full Manx indepence?

I would love it to happen and move away from our subjugation to an unelected and hereditary leader (the Lord of Mann).  We also still fall under some control of a foreign parliament (Westminster) in which we have no representation. 

We could then truly be "thy throne of home rule".

I am,  however,  realistic enough to recognise that this could be a potentially stupid decision for a whole host of reasons. 

Well full Manx independence as you suggest is perhaps no more than a romantic notion.

But then again why not? ( if it could be achieved by cutting through all the historical constitutional and legal stuff).

As with the UK and the EU redefining your relationship, and as a consequence other external relationships, needn’t have a negative effect.

There are any number of sovereign countries, smaller in population than the IOM who survive and prosper perfectly well.

So regarding your question “ would I support full Manx independence “.
I am not Manx, (merely a stopover of some forty years plus) so whether I would be  regarded to be entitled to vote in any referendum on the matter I don’t know.

Assuming I had a vote I would consider all the arguments for and against ( and these are not limited to economic considerations like those that Barney focuses on) and make my decision.

Post referendum whichever way I voted I would accept the result as the will of the people  and not be harping on about it seven years later.

Anyway it’s not going to happen

[The Voice of Reason]

13 hours ago, P.K. said:

Yes it is as it's given away on every trade deal the UK makes.

Like this one:

UK’s post-Brexit trade deals with Australia and New Zealand kick in today

The trade agreements – the first of those negotiated after Britain’s EU exit to enter into force – come after George Eustice, who was the environment secretary when the UK-Australia trade pact was struck in December 2021, admitted it was “not actually a very good deal” for Britain.

The government’s own calculations estimate that the deal will have a negligible long-term contribution to the British economy, forecasting it will increase UK GDP by only 0.08%, or £2.3bn a year, by 2035.

Special shipments of British goods such as signed Beano comics will be among the first to be sent under the new arrangements.

Well "Phew!" for that.

Compared to the £115bn hole the completely stupid and totally unnecessary brexit made in the UK's GDP £2.3bn by 2035 is sod-all...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/31/uk-post-brexit-trade-deals-with-australia-and-new-zealand-kick-in

Alright Barney, my turn:-

The looming anniversary of the 2016 vote to leave the European Union is already prompting a flurry of assessments on the impact of Brexit on the British economy. 

These evaluations range from the sensible and balanced, through to the silly or even hysterical. It is unfortunate, but perhaps not surprising, that the latter seem to be the most popular.

Take the services sector. If one thinks back to all the apocalyptic claims made by Remainers, our services industry should be a smoking ruin by now. 

Instead, the opposite is true: it has been a success story, and that will only become more obvious.

For a start, the UK’s exports of services have performed strongly over the last year. 

This partly reflects buoyant global demand for the types of services in which the UK is comparatively strong, including financial services, other business services such as advertising or legal services, and education. 

But there is no sign of a Brexit hit here.

This applies to individual sectors as well. Brexit is supposed to have dealt a severe blow to the UK financial services industry by ending unfettered access to the EU’s Single Market. 

This has made it harder for many firms to do business in the rest of Europe and some have had to increase their presence in EU member states.

However, the overall impact has been far less than feared. As much as £1.3 trillion of assets may have been transferred from the UK to the EU, but this is largely just a question of where transactions are booked. 

Very few jobs have followed – perhaps 7,000 in a sector employing over a million – and much of the associated tax revenue seems to have stayed in the UK.

In the meantime, London remains by far Europe’s most competitive financial centre. Indeed, according to the latest Global Financial Centres Index, Edinburgh and Glasgow both ranked above Dublin and Milan.

[P.K.]

9 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Alright Barney, my turn:-

The looming anniversary of the 2016 vote to leave the European Union is already prompting a flurry of assessments on the impact of Brexit on the British economy. 

These evaluations range from the sensible and balanced, through to the silly or even hysterical. It is unfortunate, but perhaps not surprising, that the latter seem to be the most popular.

Take the services sector. If one thinks back to all the apocalyptic claims made by Remainers, our services industry should be a smoking ruin by now. 

Instead, the opposite is true: it has been a success story, and that will only become more obvious.

For a start, the UK’s exports of services have performed strongly over the last year. 

This partly reflects buoyant global demand for the types of services in which the UK is comparatively strong, including financial services, other business services such as advertising or legal services, and education. 

But there is no sign of a Brexit hit here.

This applies to individual sectors as well. Brexit is supposed to have dealt a severe blow to the UK financial services industry by ending unfettered access to the EU’s Single Market. 

This has made it harder for many firms to do business in the rest of Europe and some have had to increase their presence in EU member states.

However, the overall impact has been far less than feared. As much as £1.3 trillion of assets may have been transferred from the UK to the EU, but this is largely just a question of where transactions are booked. 

Very few jobs have followed – perhaps 7,000 in a sector employing over a million – and much of the associated tax revenue seems to have stayed in the UK.

In the meantime, London remains by far Europe’s most competitive financial centre. Indeed, according to the latest Global Financial Centres Index, Edinburgh and Glasgow both ranked above Dublin and Milan.

@The Voice of Reason

The UK is the worst performing country in the G7.

What is your explanation for that?

[The Voice of Reason]

1 minute ago, P.K. said:

@The Voice of Reason

The UK is the worst performing country in the G7.

What is your explanation for that?

What do you mean by worst performing? 
 

In terms of what?

 

Sporting achievements ?

Musical achievements ?

Cultural achievements ?

Architectural brilliance ?

Ceremony ?

Tolerance towards others?

It's admired throughout the world

 

[P.K.]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

What do you mean by worst performing? 

In terms of what?

Sporting achievements ?

Musical achievements ?

Cultural achievements ?

Architectural brilliance ?

Ceremony ?

Tolerance towards others?
It's admired throughout the world

Pathetic but hardly unexpected.

GDP growth in recent years

Compared to the pre-pandemic level, UK GDP in Q1 2023 was 0.5% lower. This compares with Eurozone GDP being 2.5% higher than its pre-pandemic level, while US GDP was 5.4% higher.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/

Your explanation is?

[The Voice of Reason]

Just now, P.K. said:

Pathetic but hardly unexpected.

GDP growth in recent years

Compared to the pre-pandemic level, UK GDP in Q1 2023 was 0.5% lower. This compares with Eurozone GDP being 2.5% higher than its pre-pandemic level, while US GDP was 5.4% higher.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/

Your explanation is?

I haven’t got one. 
 

I’m not an economist by trade

[P.K.]

10 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I haven’t got one. 

I’m not an economist by trade

Then you can't challenge the point that as a brexit supporter your stupidity has really hurt the most vulnerable in society.

But you're right that the remainers have all the facts simply from the reality of the situation and the leavers like yourself have nothing but opinions which having no substance simply don't carry any weight at all in a debate on the subject.

All you can do is cling to much hackneyed terms like "sovereignty" which are worthless and simply cut no ice at all with 48% of voters who would like their £115bn back...

Edited June 2, 2023 by P.K.

[La Colombe]