P.K. Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 From the same QT with food inflation running at over 19% the on the bones of your arse Bootstrap Cook on the reality of post-Brexit Britain: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Apparently the Telegraph and the Spectator have been wrested from the Barclay family for failing to service debt. Well "Phew!" for that... Hopefully that will mean the end of the complete and utter nonsense they spout about how wonderful brexit is despite all the evidence to the contrary currently showing at a food bank near you. Rubbish like this: Unfortunately this fairy story is unlikely to have a happy ending for millions of now poorer folks thanks to the sheer folly of deliberately making it harder to trade with the biggest and best trading bloc on the planet. Idiots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 8:59 AM, Ringy Rose said: For context, though, the “massive upturn” in the raw figures coincides with a) inflation running at 12% and b) Liz Truss crashing the value of the pound. Factor both in and there’s been very little difference. Of course the raw figures also don’t consider the costs of doing that trade. Companies may still trade but extra bureaucracy means higher costs and a reduced margin (export) or higher shelf prices (import). Ah yes, sOvRiNtY. That catch-all response when Brexitists can’t actually explain why the sunlit uplands are more fetid than fantastic after Brexit. It’s quite pathetic really. Not really. Such assertions can be repeated ad nauseam, but it doesn't make them true. Things are neither sunlit nor fetid after Brexit. They simply roll on. Sterling trades against the euro at much the same levels as it did between 2008 and 2013. It had a surge in value in 2014, but that didn't really impact the trade figures either, which it should have done according to your interpretation. I deal in the currency markets daily and have done since 1995. I appreciate that inflation raises the raw figures over time. (Meaning similar inflation in both UK and Europe due to external factors.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Brexiteers are pining a lot of hopes on the latest round of ‘negotiations’ under the longstanding ‘Atlantic Declaration’. Right-wing hacks used to taunt Tony Blair with ‘Bush’s poodle’ memes, but yesterday’s updates from Washington reaffirm that the UK remains the junior partner under this agreement. A free-trade deal with the USA remains elusive. That being said, there are some positives for the UK in yesterday’s announcements, e.g., Biden gave his blessing for the UK to host a global summit on AI regulations. It is however unclear how much of any of these future negotiations will turn out to be a ‘real deal’ for the UK and how much will just be pretty plumage. What is clear is that the benefits promised by Brexit remain elusive and the whole subject is divisive. This ‘unease’ is increasingly being picked up by opinion polls. It will be interesting to gauge how, if at all, the Atlantic Declaration success (or otherwise) will shift public opinion in favour of Brexit. IMHO, unless, at some time, during the next 5 to 8 years the EU suffers some terrible adversity or the UK enjoys magnificent good fortune which is identified as being due to Brexit, successive UK governments will be pressured to call referendum(s) for re-joining the EU. I used to think it would take 20 years for such referendums to ensue, but recently I have changed my mind - the pace of change of modern geopolitical life will not let this issue fester for that long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, code99 said: What is clear is that the benefits promised by Brexit remain elusive and the whole subject is divisive. This ‘unease’ is increasingly being picked up by opinion polls. It will be interesting to gauge how, if at all, the Atlantic Declaration success (or otherwise) will shift public opinion in favour of Brexit. IMHO, unless, at some time, during the next 5 to 8 years the EU suffers some terrible adversity or the UK enjoys magnificent good fortune which is identified as being due to Brexit, successive UK governments will be pressured to call referendum(s) for re-joining the EU. I used to think it would take 20 years for such referendums to ensue, but recently I have changed my mind - the pace of change of modern geopolitical life will not let this issue fester for that long. As far as I can tell Atlantic Declaration has nothing to do with brexit. No doubt Downing Street will big it up as much as they can but it's still just crumbs from the top table. It's also very obvious that the US has zero interest in a trade deal with the much diminished UK. At least with this appalling excuse for a government anyway... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 QT from Clacton-on-Sea provided us with the best and most logical, well thought out argument for brexit I've heard yet. Well done to the lady who pointed out that when she went to France and Germany they were 'going up on their roofs with nothing'. If you saw it you'll have to agree, it was the most intelligent brexit point yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 10 hours ago, Freggyragh said: QT from Clacton-on-Sea provided us with the best and most logical, well thought out argument for brexit I've heard yet. Well done to the lady who pointed out that when she went to France and Germany they were 'going up on their roofs with nothing'. If you saw it you'll have to agree, it was the most intelligent brexit point yet. I watched it and was absolutely appalled. It became very clear very quickly that the question of whether or not we should have referendums was definitively answered by that audience. A resounding "Never Again!" It was heavily pro-brexit to put it mildly. The 'going up on their roofs' lady was just one of many. Unfortunately... The only gold that you could mine from the whole sorry experience was provided by Ben Habib who was elected as a Brexit Party MEP for East London. The fact that Brexit was a complete and utter disaster was not really in dispute. Alistair Campbell made sure of that. The reason given by Ben Habib was that we had yet to leave the EU 'properly' for want of a better word. According to him it was all because we were still under the thrall of EU regulations and when we got rid of them all the UK would thrive. Cue a storm of applause, cheering etc etc I switched off at that point. I just couldn't take any more... Back in 2015, when various outcomes were being mooted, there was talk of the relationship between Norway and the EU. The Norwegian Ambassador pointed out that their relationship was very similar to being a member of the EU. Because in order to trade with them they had to adopt all the regulations around food production for example. Not using banned pesticides because they were a danger to health and so forth. You get the idea. The only difference being that you get absolutely no say in forming those policies! Habib must have known that we cannot ignore the biggest and best trading bloc on the planet sitting right on our doorstep. So we have to trade with them. Which means producing goods and services that meet their rules and regulations. Which means Habib was playing to the crowd with a load of complete and utter bollox that was one of the "cornerstones" of the entire brexit fraud. It was dreadful to watch as the terminally stupid lapped it up. The perfect excuse for why their precious brexit was a pile of poo. There is no way this country is ever going to pull together while the likes of Habib are lying to the public and if anything deepening the polarisation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 13 hours ago, Freggyragh said: QT from Clacton-on-Sea provided us with the best and most logical, well thought out argument for brexit I've heard yet. Well done to the lady who pointed out that when she went to France and Germany they were 'going up on their roofs with nothing'. If you saw it you'll have to agree, it was the most intelligent brexit point yet. So she wants more deaths on UK building sites? That's a Brexit benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garteth T Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 I’m pretty bored of the Brexit arguments. It is yesterday’s news being relentlessly argued over. Firstly, the UK has left. It is no longer a member of the EU and that is not likely to change in the foreseeable future. The UK would have to go back on worse terms than it left on and whilst there may be an appetite for closer alignment, I don’t see that resulting in rejoining. Leaving is done and dusted. The issue is not leaving but the relationship post leaving as there never appears to have been any real agreement of what a realistic relationship between the UK & the EU would be post Brexit Both sides were less than truthful during the referendum. Leaving was not going to be the complete and utter disaster that some many in remain argued and it was not going to result in many of the massive benefits that leave stated would arise. Whilst both sides lied that does not mean that people necessarily voted based on those lies. You could have easily voted leave and not believed many of the promises of remain e.g. simply because you wanted to have more control of the borders and been perfectly happy that might leave the UK worse of finically, made it more difficult to trade. I am glad the UK left. Not because I thought the UK would be better off outside the UK but simply that the sore would always fester until one day the UK left and the healing process could start. Many were only going to start to see the benefits/disadvantages of leaving the EU once the UK left and it became clear how truthful were the position of each side. Brexit has produced some of the benefits promised. The UK now has control over its borders even if it does not exercise control in a way many would appear to want by really reducing numbers. Similarly, the UK Parliament should now be the party that controls the laws and legislation that are introduced. The present UK Government though seems to be finding ways to try and bypass parliamentary scrutiny although many who were vocal on the issue of the sovereignty of parliament now seem to have gone quiet over the UK government bypassing. There are also disadvantages, Travel, more red tape, it has contributed to the current high inflation, cost of living crises. The fact that both camps appear refuse to accept that there are advantages and disadvantages or pay offs is not going to get the mess resolved in the short term. There is still the Northern Ireland border issue and how you resolve the requirement for a hard border somewhere. In the Middle of the Irish Sea is not acceptable to unionists etc. Between Ireland and NI is not compatible with the Good Friday agreement. This was glossed over at the time of the referendum and has not been adequately resolved since The biggest issues though is that whilst the UK left and the basics of what leaving the EU would mean were broadly understandable, although both sides effectively appeared to deny those that did not support their view and over played those that did, the referendum did not address what the relationship would be between the UK and the EU post leaving. Effectively anybody could believe it could mean what they wanted it to mean. On one side there were those who believed it meant a hard Brexit, on the other side it could simply mean leaving but with close harmonisation and there where a whole range of views in between. Seven years after the vote it seems that whilst the UK has left, the issue of what the future relationship between the UK and the EU is no nearer to being resolved. One side expect as much divergence as possible and the other would prefer close alignment. I am not sure it will ever be resolved and certainly not until it is accepted that there are positives and negatives on both sides or that there will have to trade offs and which should have precedence. Whilst many still argue and believe in cakeism I cannot see the argument being resolved. The UK left EU for good as bad but when calling the referendum there should have been a reasonably agreed and understood position of what the relationship between EU and the UK would be post Brexit. There was not one then and there appears not to be one now and where the UK is heading seems to not to be driven by what the majority might be happy with but what deal one of the political party might have to do with another party or a rump of its own party to be in power Actually leaving the EU was not necessarily total madness, but doing so without apparently a clue of what came next. Re-hashing old arguments about Brexit is pointless. The UK has left and will not consider a return for many years. Deciding on the way forward is the now what needs to be agreed and for all I hate referendums it feels like putting a couple of options to the public may be the only solution as I cannot see the politicians agreeing 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 10 hours ago, P.K. said: I switched off at that point. I just couldn't take any more... I am familiar with this feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 @Garteth T Coming in here, being reasonable, talking sense. Who do you think you are?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Garteth T said: Brexit has produced some of the benefits promised. The UK now has control over its borders even if it does not exercise control in a way many would appear to want by really reducing numbers. Similarly, the UK Parliament should now be the party that controls the laws and legislation that are introduced. @Garteth T You have totally misrepresented two of the central tenets of brexit. UK borders and UK law making. Firstly the UK has always had control of it's borders. So there was no "taking back control" which was all bollox. EU citizens had the right to settle and work here and fortunately they did because EU migrants contributed more £ to UK PLC than any other group and that includes the indigenous population. Brexit was a massive f-off to these people which is why there are now record numbers of non-EU migrants coming to the UK to make up the numbers. These people want to permanently settle here, bring over the extended family etc. What a massive own-goal for the brexiteers...! Secondly the only institution that can make UK law is our own UK Sovereign Parliament. It was and remains the only institution that can do this. In the VERY unlikely event that the democratically elected EU parliament tried to push through anything totally unpalatable the HoC would simply vote it down. This would have given the Commission a massive problem to solve which if they didn't Article 50 could be triggered. As this never happened in 40 years or so it was very unlikely to happen in the future. I trust this clears up the issues that you have got really rather badly wrong...? Happy To Help! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Well, here's a funny one. A benefit of Brexit which is simultaneously a dropping penny. The benefit - selfish wealthy Brits are pulling out of buying second and third homes around Europe. I've never been comfortable with rich people shitting on local populations by artificially inflating property prices and pricing them out of their local markets. The properties are often left vacant for much of the year. But fuck them, eh. The penny - the same selfish cunts are now exacerbating the same problem at home in places like Cornwall. And how did Cornwall vote in the referendum? Careful what you wish for. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Oh, and by the way, 8.00 pm tonight, BBC4, perhaps rekindle a sense of pan European cooperation and optimism. Or resentment! Lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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