thommo2010 Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Unleaded petrol seems to be going up at a rate of almost 1p per week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Happier diner said: How can you be so thick. EVs are coming. Are you a denier. Where are they going to be charged if no charge points are fitted. Its 9 years until ICE cars are no more. There is going to have to be a massive ramp up in the number of charge points installed. Not the other way around. How can I be so thick? EVs are coming? EVs are here, for now. They are not the future. Hydrogen cell probably are. I predict in 20 years time court cases and class actions along the lines of the current diesel compensation claims, because EVs are just not viable. The infrastructure is a complete waste of money. The manufacture of EVs has a far greater footprint than IC. The break even point is currently in the area of 50-70K miles. Cost of disposal is also greater. 2030 deadline will slip. Besides, the majority of vehicles on the road will still be IC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, Cambon said: How can I be so thick? EVs are coming? EVs are here, for now. They are not the future. Hydrogen cell probably are. I predict in 20 years time court cases and class actions along the lines of the current diesel compensation claims, because EVs are just not viable. The infrastructure is a complete waste of money. The manufacture of EVs has a far greater footprint than IC. The break even point is currently in the area of 50-70K miles. Cost of disposal is also greater. 2030 deadline will slip. Besides, the majority of vehicles on the road will still be IC. 20 years is too far off. There are insufficient charging points for EVs now never mind in 9 years time. You may be right about hydrogen but I think it will be used to generate electricity rather than carried around in cars. So EVs may be around for longer than you estimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Non-Believer said: And cyclists holding up business traffic on the roads..... Where is this? What a silly statement. You are in the wrong millennium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Happier diner said: 20 years is too far off. There are insufficient charging points for EVs now never mind in 9 years time. You may be right about hydrogen but I think it will be used to generate electricity rather than carried around in cars. So EVs may be around for longer than you estimate. You completely miss the point. In 20 years there will be trouble due to the lies being told about EVs today, and how it is the way forward. It is not. The whole thing needs to stop immediately! Burning fossil fuel to generate electricity, to charge cells, to power EVs is very inefficient. There is very little lithium in the world. About enough to create sufficient cells power a few million cars, at the best part of twice the manufacturing carbon foot print of a conventional car. It is all a scam. Edited September 17, 2021 by Cambon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Non-Believer said: And cyclists holding up business traffic on the roads..... And every other sort of traffic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Cambon said: You completely miss the point. In 20 years there will be trouble due to the lies being told about EVs today, and how it is the way forward. It is not. The whole thing needs to stop immediately! Burning fossil fuel to generate electricity, to charge cells, to power EVs is very inefficient. There is very little lithium in the world. About enough to create sufficient cells power a few million cars, at the best part of twice the manufacturing carbon foot print of a conventional car. It is all a scam. But hydrogen is not a fossil fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cambon said: You completely miss the point... There is very little lithium in the world. About enough to create sufficient cells power a few million cars... Apparently not, if you do a quick search. The latest place of bounty is Afghanistan, where it lies in abundance... ETA: 86 million tons last estimate. Edited September 17, 2021 by quilp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
display name Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 That's handy. We could have a war on battery prices and what to charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 39 minutes ago, quilp said: Apparently not, if you do a quick search. The latest place of bounty is Afghanistan, where it lies in abundance... ETA: 86 million tons last estimate. If that were true, and extractable, the USA would not have pulled out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 52 minutes ago, Happier diner said: But hydrogen is not a fossil fuel. Again, you miss the point, but this time I suspect you miss it on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Cambon said: If that were true, and extractable, the USA would not have pulled out. It is true. 86 million tons or thereabouts. Why wouldn't it be extractable? That last bit of your post is nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Apparently Lithium is so rare[1], it looks like we'll have to invade Cornwall. Paradoxically the main problem with new Lithium deposits (and there's loads in existing mines in Chile and Australia anyway) is that businesses are unwilling to develop new mines because they think the technology may be superseded in 15 years or so. [1] It's not rare at all really, more common in the Earth's crust than lead for example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 12 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Apparently Lithium is so rare[1], it looks like we'll have to invade Cornwall.............. [1] It's not rare at all really, more common in the Earth's crust than lead for example. That's 'cos all the lead was extracted during the last few centuries, and has gone already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 18 hours ago, Cambon said: Again, you miss the point, but this time I suspect you miss it on purpose. Yes. On purpose. That's because you evaded my question on purpose. So I'll ask again. You say there will be hydrogen powered cars within 20 years so need for charge points. However what is your plan between now - 2030 and 2041. No ICE and in your world no EVs either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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