Cost of government

[TheTeapot]

Just now, The Voice of Reason said:

“We”?

Seriously, ask around, everyones been talking about it. People were talking about some kind of intervention and all sorts.

[The Voice of Reason]

Just now, TheTeapot said:

Seriously, ask around, everyones been talking about it. People were talking about some kind of intervention and all sorts.

And where do I ask around?

Do I traverse Strand Street asking if anyone has seen “The Teapot”. That might lead to some kind of intervention 

[Ramseyboi]

4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And where do I ask around?

Do I traverse Strand Street asking if anyone has seen “The Teapot”. That might lead to some kind of intervention 

Druidale on a Tuesday at 19:03.  Have you never been invited?

That would explain a lot.

[TheTeapot]

11 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And where do I ask around?

Do I traverse Strand Street asking if anyone has seen “The Teapot”. That might lead to some kind of intervention 

Why would you ask for me? This is about you.

[slinkydevil]

23 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And where do I ask around?

Do I traverse Strand Street asking if anyone has seen “The Teapot”. That might lead to some kind of intervention 

No one asks to see TheTeapot . When it's your time you'll know.

This guy is trolling for sure.

[The Voice of Reason]

13 hours ago, Ramseyboi said:

It isn't that hard to get a tradesperson to turn up and work for a reasonable rate, unless in your initial interaction with them they conclude you are a dick who is not worth working for.

They can pick and chose who they work for.  They/we turn up first time for nice people

Well that’s certainly not my experience, nor that of many of my acquaintances. All nice people.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by The Voice of Reason
Removed a sentence that could possibly be interpreted as a slur

[code99]

Some 7,700 of the Island’s workforce are employed by the IOMG and even more by Local Authorities. Under HQ’s leadership his administration has expanded in ever greater numbers but not in quality.

I too support ‘big’ government, provided it delivers high quality services and takes care of the poorest and most vulnerable members of society. The alternative will be to increase taxes, perhaps across the board. I am prepared to pay for the privilege of being a member of the said society, but what I would not be happy with is to be asked to pay for a Rolls and then only receive a second-hand bike.  E.g., deteriorating health services, an abysmal trend which started before Covid. And then there are ongoing issues within education, unaffordable and often substandard appalling housing, etc. Incidentally, if we do get more ‘progressive’ MHKs in September, they are likely to be proponents of even ‘bigger’ government. Nevertheless, the next administration must undertake a comprehensive review of its major roles, key deliverables and the functioning of each of the increasingly Kafkaesque departments, and then cull and merge as appropriate.

The next 5 years could prove to be some of the most tumultuous the Island has ever experienced. I sincerely hope that all of the individuals who are putting themselves forward for the honourable jobs of being people trusted representatives understand that to earn their crust (salaries and pensions) they may have to work a lot harder than they expect, much harder that just carping on about trivia like so many of their predecessors have done in the past. 

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

The next 5 years could prove to be some of the most tumultuous the Island has ever experienced. I sincerely hope that all of the individuals who are putting themselves forward for the honourable jobs of being people trusted representatives understand that to earn their crust (salaries and pensions) they may have to work a lot harder than they expect, much harder that just carping on about trivia like so many of their predecessors have done in the past.

We say this every 5 years though, in 2011 it was going to be dealing with the fallout from the VAT grab, 2016 was the PS pensions figure (that has to be funded from General Revenue after this year?)....and what do we get? Cans kicked down the road by new feet, largely with ever rising indirect taxes and charges to pay for it.

I'd like to see a breakdown of where these new 350 people are actually employed within Govt and what their roles are, it's a huge number of people for an add-on. I'd bet my bottom greenback that Cabinet Office has acquired no small number of them, they're still recruiting for a lot more presently if my information is correct. Certainly, they're not coalface, although DEFA is another one with numbers of new stickleback and beetle counters (all essential to the biosphere status, obviously).

The article on iomtoday has some very revealing information about what is and has been going on, COMIN now at least appear to have it on the agenda. One of the problems is that once employed in the public sector, it's extremely difficult to lay off and thin out, many redundancy regulations and cost implications.

But we are on a payroll of over £500M pa now for these people - plus the PS pensions cost. That is an eye-watering figure.

[asitis]

8 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

We say this every 5 years though, in 2011 it was going to be dealing with the fallout from the VAT grab, 2016 was the PS pensions figure (that has to be funded from General Revenue after this year?)....and what do we get? Cans kicked down the road by new feet, largely with ever rising indirect taxes and charges to pay for it.

I'd like to see a breakdown of where these new 350 people are actually employed within Govt and what their roles are, it's a huge number of people for an add-on. I'd bet my bottom greenback that Cabinet Office has acquired no small number of them, they're still recruiting for a lot more presently if my information is correct. Certainly, they're not coalface, although DEFA is another one with numbers of new stickleback and beetle counters (all essential to the biosphere status, obviously).

The article on iomtoday has some very revealing information about what is and has been going on, COMIN now at least appear to have it on the agenda. One of the problems is that once employed in the public sector, it's extremely difficult to lay off and thin out, many redundancy regulations and cost implications.

But we are on a payroll of over £500M pa now for these people - plus the PS pensions cost. That is an eye-watering figure.

Quite unbelievable for an island of 85,000 or thereabouts.

[Banker]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

 

But we are on a payroll of over £500M pa now for these people - plus the PS pensions cost. That is an eye-watering figure.

Plus we the taxpayers are also paying the employers NI contributions so with pensions could probably add another £125m to annual costs 

[The Voice of Reason]

4 hours ago, code99 said:

 

I too support ‘big’ government, provided it delivers high quality services and takes care of the poorest and most vulnerable members of society.
The alternative will be to increase taxes, perhaps across the board. I am prepared to pay for the privilege of being a member of the said society, but what I would not be happy with is to be asked to pay for a Rolls and then only receive a second-hand bike.  E.g., deteriorating health services, an abysmal trend which started before Covid. And then there are ongoing issues within education, unaffordable and often substandard appalling housing, etc. 

 

Which is exactly why the public sector has to be properly resourced.

You seem to want  Utopia without being prepared to pay for it

[finlo]

4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Which is exactly why the public sector has to be properly resourced.

You seem to want  Utopia without being prepared to pay for it

You feel they're under resourced then?

[quilp]

17 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Which is exactly why the public sector has to be properly resourced.

We heard from government not so long ago that there was a commitment to reducing civil service headcount and what we got in the end was hundreds more on the payroll at even greater expense. 

17 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

You seem to want Utopia without being prepared to pay for it...

You and your moral-relativism. Nobody's seeking utopia, just a public service that runs efficiently and has a commitment to giving the taxpayer value for its money. At all levels everyone in public sector service is employed to serve the people. They work FOR us, even Howard. I think they forget this.

[finlo]

3 minutes ago, quilp said:

We heard from government not so long ago that there was a commitment to reducing civil service headcount and what we got in the end was hundreds more on the payroll at even greater expense. 

You and your moral-relativism. Nobody's seeking utopia, just a public service that runs efficiently and has a commitment to giving the taxpayer value for its money. At all levels everyone in public sector service is employed to serve the people. They work FOR us, even Howard. I think they forget this.

And they absolutely despise being reminded of it!

[HNWI]

13 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Which is exactly why the public sector has to be properly resourced.

You seem to want  Utopia without being prepared to pay for it

The Isle of Man Government public sector is over staffed and more than adequately resourced.

What is missing is the leadership and management to correctly target those resources and assets and sweat them in the way that the private sector does. The word sweat not being part of the island senior public service vernacular. Management failure in these issues is invariably followed by requests for yet more staff (usually management to disguise the failure) and resources, hence the current situation.

This has grown out of a culture of complacency that management has both been raised in and expanded upon having reached office. Plus being permitted to do so of course.

I suspect that it was not always this way, the rot set in about thirty-five years ago when politicians started taking their eye off the domestic ball in favour of showboating internationally and whilst the cats were away, the mice started playing and have been doing so ever since in terms of self-concerned demands, as you so blissfully personify.

In any private sector operation aspiring to be successful this would instigate a wholesale clearcut, short, sharp and clinical. In the local public sector though, in the cat's absence, the mice have taken the time and trouble to make that extremely difficult to achieve.

Therefore not a situation with a quick fix, or even a slow fix given the reluctance of politicians to bite the bullet for fear of upsetting a large part of their voter-base.

One thing is for sure though, acquiescence to further staff and money demands will only feed the cancer.