What Is Manx Culture ?

[Snaipyr]

I think it would be great if Manx History was taught in school.  Just seems a little hollow having national identity resting on a dead language and an overuse of Manx flags.

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Get your facts straight - Manx history is now taught in schools and the language is NOTdead. You just don't mix with the right people!

 

We can also converse with the Irish and Scottish gaelic speakers and have more cultural affinity with them than with the English. In fact part of our shared national identity is a mistrust (and often downright hatred) of the English for all they did to try and wipe out the gaelic languages in the past. There are older people I know on the Island, and in Scotland, who were beaten at school by teachers from England for using gaelic words, and they still feel angry about it.

 

Try visiting the Bun Scoil - it's a delight listening to the kids conversing naturally in Manx - and not just in school. I was listening to a gang of them playing cards outside of school and it was all in Manx. Some were brought up to speak Manx and English as babies - others starting learning at the Manx playschools.

[sirdick]

As for live music the Island is ok, I have had some cracking nights out. Fewer cover bands and more creativity wouldn't go a miss.

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You're not going to the right venues if you're missing all the original bands!

[the-rhymes]

It's not just the Celts that got punished for not speaking the queens English. Dialect speakers in England also had to comply.

 

It's time to let go of the anger though, don't you think???

[the-rhymes]

As for live music the Island is ok, I have had some cracking nights out. Fewer cover bands and more creativity wouldn't go a miss.

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You're not going to the right venues if you're missing all the original bands!

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You are probably right... I also need to try a bit harder as since my baby has come along I haven't been out much, sad but true.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Haha who would be the right people.

 

I do apologise then I stand corrected. I don't tend to mix much in Island circles anymore with me not living on the island at the moment. Though I know I wasn't taught any Manx at school at all. I am very surprised to know that it is taught nowadays and very glad it is. Shame I wasn't taught any.

 

Is the Manx language not dead? Maybe that it too much of an emotive word.

I have lived on the island the majority of my life and it is not a language I have needed to use in order to communicate others. The only reason I can see to teach Manx is to instill a sense of nationalism, form or harden a distinct national/cultural identity. Nothing wrong in that at all I think; though I cannot think of any other reasons to have the language taught. I say it is a dead language because I do not feel it is the case that as the language is being now taught in schools it is somehow a continuation of the language as if the language has always had the same 'currency' and context in which it is used. The terminology I use isn't specific and inaccurate because I am certainly no expert on languages and culture.

However, the language stopped being used to converse with one another decades ago, even the dialect and accent is barely heard anymore as saddening as that is.

People may be able to speak the language nowadays but is not like bringing back the past or reversing the past. The context in which the language was used has long gone.

Of course, the way language is used constantly changes and the language itself changes but the Manx that will be spoken today will be different to the Manx spoken yesterday.

 

Maybe my strong feelings about it come from the fact that I tend too see my national identity as being based on things other than the Manx language. I don't speak it and never needed to converse in the basics of greetings etc. yet I know the names of most of the hills, rivers and places etc and have a good of Manx knowledge of Manx history from reading and hearing stories from my family. I guess that is where my national identity comes from.

Though seeing how the island has been so anglicised I do find it hard to believe we have more affiliation with the Scottish than the Irish culturally. We may have had, but I tend to feel that Manx to be nowadays so culturally similar to that English that is hard to distinguish. I think the Island definitely has a mixture of cultural values from within and without, I guess it all comes down to what culture really is to us.

 

Though in regards to what you were saying about mistrust or even hatred of the English it is a narrow minded attitude to have. Fair enough, the Celtic nations have had a hard time from the English but that is the past. To pretend that the English are somehow worlds apart from us and that we should not trust them is ridiculous. Certainly the Manx have reaped the benefits (and there have been problems too) of having such a close affinity to the England and the English. The Manx, Scottish and Irish have fought within themselves for long enough. It is quite a saddening statement to make if true that a shared national identity is based on mistrust of the English. I would hope Manx nationalism is based on something more positive, it is for myself. Of course, my Manxness is not being English but it is more. I definitely feel I have more in common with the NorthWestern Englishman than a Scotman or Irishman. No doubt that has to do with the cultural influences I have had and taken on board from television and meeting other people. Other people may have more in common with the Irish.

Though again, nationalism that is based on xenophobia is hardly an admirable quality to be proud about. It seems strange reading into history how proud the Manx were 100 years ago of their island and their customs whilst being proud to be affiliated with Britain and the Empire. Have things changed, if so is it the Englishmans fault?

 

I suppose my identity as being Manx is my own, which doesn't necessarily make sense in view of what nationalism represents. I call myself Manx, like much about the Island and feel glad to be Manx but I don't feel anything but cringefullness at the sight of Manx flags everywhere, especially the tasteless ones in peoples gardens and then there is my lack of affiliation with some Manx people when they moan about the English and don't feel much in common with the insular attitudes.

I find it hard to understand my nationalistic feelings but I know they are all learned.

[the-rhymes]

Bravo: La_Dolce_Vita

[FinloYessir]

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Try visiting the Bun Scoil - it's a delight listening to the kids conversing naturally in Manx - and not just in school. I was listening to a gang of them playing cards outside of school and it was all in Manx. Some were brought up to speak Manx and English as babies - others starting learning at the Manx playschools.

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That's fantastic. I did not know we were that far advanced speaking Manx again. Brilliant.

[alriteyessir]

http://www.isleofman.com/locallife/feature...nx_language.asp

[Traa dy liooar]

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[puddy]

kellyiom, I could never have put it as well as you did.

 

What's been p*ssing me off this past week is the Manx place names that we seem to be losing. For example 'Kionedroughad Road' in Andreas, sorry Andruss (since I'm being picky). Stick a roadsign up and for some unknown reason write the Anglicanised version of the name underneath the Manx one and a few years down the line everyone calls it 'Bridge End Road'.

 

And we don't wash our nets on Thursdays.

[Tempus Fugit]

It's not just the Celts that got punished for not speaking the queens English. Dialect speakers in England also had to comply.

 

It's time to let go of the anger though, don't you think???

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as long as we don't have to 'luck in a cuck buk' for a recipe, I'd rather 'look in a cook book'

 

(Did you see Kevin Woodford on one of the tv out-take programs getting ribbed about saying 'castle' and not 'kaarsel')

 

Talkin about dilect, woud'n be rite if we could'n have a gripe about things ?

jus have a skeet out the kwinder and see if there's any smook comin' out the chimbley

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I think it is wrong to have everything Anglicised. Why not keep the Manx name. Even saying that what about the pronunciation of names and places. Everything is being more Anglicised and has done for a long time. I guess it is just the way things change. I mean I would agree with you but it does make me think what we are trying to preserve. I mean the Manx names are relatively new, they haven't existed since the dawn of time. What are we wanting a return to and why?

What is Manx now wasn't Manx 50 years ago or 200 years ago.

 

Not nitpicking but chimley isn't dialect. It is Manx. Weird how one Manx word is preserved in the language.

 

Have to say I miss the Manx accent now, wish I had more of an accent myself.

[Tempus Fugit]

~ and I thought people in England knew what I meant when I talked about stobs and dubs, and slaa some butter on the bread, but they didn't know what I was on about !

 

I was always amused when I went to customers' houses on jobs, and was casually asked how long I had been on the Island, as if it had been an uninhabited rock until the settlers moved in. My usual response was that I was a native but didn't have a bone through my nose

[nipper]

What is Manx Culture?

 

I know very well what it used to be. And perhaps I'll save that for another thread. But what is it now? Well just take a look around . . .

 

It's about greed. Its looking after number one. It's having a big expensive 'up yours pal' vehicle. It's ripping up the fields to build more houses for more exiles who are coming to live here. (The occasional token house will go to a young Manx couple of course).

 

Its about corruption. It's about dodgy politicians. Its about not being able to control the £millions (Hospital . . . . IRIS . . . . Power Station . . . . etc). Its about assuming everyone with money must have come by it honestly.

 

It's about drugs and crime and violence (There was very little if any, heroin reported on this Island up until about 10 years ago - its 'whatever' these days).

 

Its about care kids roaming the streets of our towns and villages and causing havoc (thin end of the wedge just now, but watch his space).

 

It's about injustice in the courts. Its about fat cats. Its about a nasty society run by capitalists.

 

Its about ripping down our built environment and replacing fine Victorian buildings for cash only and no pride in the workmanship.

 

I could go on.

 

 

But most of all though, Manx Culture is all about wearing a good thick pair of rose tinted spectacles.

[FinloYessir]

~ and I thought people in England knew what I meant when I talked about stobs and dubs, and slaa some butter on the bread,  but they didn't know what I was on about !

 

I was always amused when I went to customers' houses on jobs, and was casually asked how long I had been on the Island, as if it had been an uninhabited rock until the settlers moved in. My usual response was that I was a native but didn't have a bone through my nose 

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I must have missed stabs and dubs over my 46 years.

 

Can I have a translation?

 

Taa