What Is Manx Culture ?

[Gladys]

Earlier in this thread I tried to make a distinction between culture and heritage; they are not necessarily synonymous. I am all for preserving the Manx language and am very happy to see that it is much more widely taught and used then when I was a child. However, to say that the language is part of our culture is questionnable as a conscious effort has to be made to learn/teach it; it is not a mother tongue (i.e. the first language learnt). However, it is a very valuable part of our heritage.

 

I don't know if this distinction makes any difference in practice; except that culture is what we have now and heritage is what we had before. If that is an acceptable definition, then our culture is much wider than just preserving place names and language (although as above these are important), but more to do with maintaining the way of life; the standard and quality of life; our general attitude and demeanour; appreciation of our history etc etc.

[nipper]

The decline of the Manks language is well documented  - basically revestment forced many to earn a living away from the Island (eg in the Navy, in rapidly growing Liverpool ...) where knowledge of English was necessary - there are then many many examples of families deliberately not teaching their children Manx - there was a revival in late 19th C as part of the general Celtic revival (think of Knox's work, the Welsh eisteddfods ) but A W Moore made an execellent point at I think the 1904 eisteddfod when he pointed out that the Island was the only one that had a measureable amount of home rule and that practical politics could make more difference than mere romantic notions.  One can have independence without stirring up racial 'hatred' - the Manx have been of mixed race for centuries - even in 1911  20% of inhabitants were born off the Island (10,000 out of 52,000).

Re William Christian - many have pointed out he is a very flawed 'hero' to adopt - all the eulogies actually date post Revestment when anti-English sentiment at the ending of the running trade was high.  All contempory references describe him as a bully and  petty tyrant - however you might like to read the 10 or pages of accusations in Lib Scacc  in which he is accused of fathering a child on his own illegitimate daughter and trying to procure an abortion -  there was a hearing by the Keys (of which he was a member) which dismissed the tale but on the appeal by his accusers to the Governor (apointed by Parliament the party that he had helped) the governor inquires into the case and especially the circumstances whereby the accused could sit in judgement on his own  case  and opened a fresh inquiry - within a couple of days William Christian had moved to England (illegally as he did not get the necessary permission, his brother was tried for aiding his escape) - I believe the story about the accounts being deficient was a whitewash - more telling about his conduct are the petitions by a relative that he not be appointed guardian of a young child as this would not be in the best interests of that child.

Whether Christian made the better choice to break his earlier oath of allegiance to the Derbys and saved the Manx from much bloodshed has been debated for at least a century and a half (see the collection of papers in the Manx Soc volume of the 1860's, Sir John Gell's legal opinion of the late 19th C, more argument in the 1930's etc) after all Derby had written a letter to his wife holed up in Castle Rushen telling her to surrender which Christian knew about (remember also that Derby also died after an even more questionable trial)  - it is much more likely, IMO, given Christian's earlier  conduct that he was operating in his own self interest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nice post Frances. Thank you.

(I've quoted it all because we have started a new page)

 

So it seems that the Manx Justice system was just as honourable back then as it is today.

 

 

And comparing the events in Pitcairn and the events described above, is there any (other?) connection between William Christian and Fletcher Christian I wonder?

[staaue]

Before we all jump on the band wagon about Illiam Dhone being an incestuous kind of character, Can somebody please give me some reference to credible literiture where this information is held?

 

Cheers Nipper for the private message.

[Frances]

Lib Sccacc 1656-1659 (Manx Museum Microfilm RB445) - Libri Scaccarii, or Exchequer Books, containing judgments on breaches of penal statutes, appeals from the Spiritual Court, &c. (abreviated Lib Scacc)

[staaue]

Thanks Frances.

I'll have to look into that as it all sounds a little suspect to me. All the dates and circumstances appear to say he was set up... that'll explain the lack of evidence eh...?

Have you studied these sources Frances, and are they in your Notebook.

 

Cheers....

[Frances]

Yes I have read them and a partial transcription is on my site (look under people and then William Christian) - no they don't appear to be set up evidence at all - they both explain his otherwise strange flight from the Island (he was Receiver general so would be handling quite large amounts of money - he could easily have been 'set up' over this but there was no need to set him up at the time) and also the otherwise strange comments in the near contemporary Quaker accounts - I didn't discover them, another better-known researcher found them as they were otherwise not common knowledge (Lib Scacc is not exactly bedside reading and the pages don't jump out at you) - to be honest the hand is not that easy to read , especially after 'mangling' by the museum microfilm printer which is why I've not yet finished them - however I suspect they will make an appearance in the new Manx Worthies volume to appear. I have however my suspicions that A W Moore knew about them as he actually quotes elsewhere in his history (1900) a verbatim section of an adjacent page (unconnected with William Christian) but decided not to treat them in his history (he was also family) which might explain Moore's guarded comments re Christian. They don't remove the political considerations of Christian's actions - the trial was according to Gell legal - but Christian refused to plead thus the judges had no alternative in their verdict as to his treason to the then Lord. Whether this makes him a martyr is a political judgement (and all such judgements are made differently by different ages who have their own agenda to follow) - there may well have been the desire for revenge by Derby's son who by the way was on very bad terms with his mother who never forgave him for marrying his Dutch wife (whom she always referred to as 'that women').

There is also the somewhat unexplained soujourn Christian spent in a London gaol with a claim for a considerable amount of owed money. I suspect the reason the case re the child (and there is a strange baptismal record also explained by it) never reached a conclusion was that the Restoration occured and then the treason trial. for which there is quite a bit of contempory evidence.

Treating Christian as a far-sighted political activist is one thing (tho again in my opinion he would appear to have had a large amount of self-interest rather like his uncle in all his actions) but setting him up as an ideal Manxman is another. James Stanley (Earl of Derby) comes over from his papers as a much more pleasant and cultured person but he had his own political agenda which required subjecting the Manx to increased rents and taxes - however he had his Machievellian side (just read the sage political advice he gives his son) - remember also that the Stanleys had a reasonably good claim to the throne at Elizabeth's death (James's uncle Ferdinando was poisoned, it is assumed, to thwart any such claims) and James was always treated badly by the Stuarts and also by subsequent historians.