IOM DHSC & MANX CARE

[Ghost Ship]

23 hours ago, Galen said:

As I recall he is the nephew of Clive Wild who used to do the IOM Police IT.

A noticeable part of his career history that is not mentioned is his involvement with the UK NHS National Programme for IT (NPfIT) - another unmitigated disaster some might say! He used to commute from the IOM to Leeds to the DHSS HQ in Quarry House and its associated offices every week for several years.

And yes he will be on Performance Review, as are most public servants, but with the low level of understanding of IT / Data Security / Data Governance of his seniors, he no doubt will convince them he is doing a splendid job in difficult circumstances. After all he will have the full support and confidence of the Chief Secretary having worked for him when in the IOM Cabinet Office.

Hmmm.

I was involved with NPfIT locally within my own NHS trust.  I think most people who were unlucky enough to have any involvement with it would agree it was an unmitigated national cock-up from the top down.  Our designated IT provider was Fujitsu and as I recall their performance was such that the NHS had to terminate their contract.  (I know my trust's director who was the local project "sponsor" refused to sign off various stages of their work - although I believe Fujitsu later sued the NHS and agreed some kind of settlement).

Whether it's correct that this Manx chap was involved in the "implementation" of NPfIT or not, I don't know.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Ghost Ship

[Dr. Grumpy]

19 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said:

Hmmm.

I was involved with NPfIT locally within my own NHS trust.  I think most people who were unlucky enough to have any involvement with it would agree it was an unmitigated national cock-up from the top down.  Our designated IT provider was Fujitsu and as I recall their performance was such that the NHS had to terminate their contract.  (I know my trust's director who was the local project "sponsor" refused to sign off various stages of their work - although I believe Fujitsu later sued the NHS and agreed some kind of settlement).

Whether it's correct that this Manx chap was involved in the "implementation" of NPfIT or not, I don't know.

Well, I'm told that the 'local Manx chap' Co-led the NPfIT disaster with......wait for it........

Sir Jonathan Michael

[Andy Onchan]

3 hours ago, wrighty said:

I don’t like it when a bunch of anonymous contributors launch personal attacks on a named individual. Richard Wild is one of the good guys. Do you lot really expect that he vets every single email in case someone has clicked “send all” by mistake?

Data Protection rules, or more correctly fear of breaching data protection rules, hampers patient care. I get frustrated by it on a daily basis when I get emails about patients I have to identify using my skills at cryptic crossword solving. There has to be a balance, but I think it’s swung too far towards keeping everything secret, to the detriment of the average patient who would prefer everyone looking after them to be in full possession of the relevant information. 

So who's responsible, if not Richard Wild? The CEO, the Minister, the tea lady? No one is asking him to ready every email but there has to be checks and balances in place to avoid things like that from happening. 

[wrighty]

35 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

So who's responsible, if not Richard Wild? The CEO, the Minister, the tea lady? No one is asking him to ready every email but there has to be checks and balances in place to avoid things like that from happening. 

Such as? A check-box to say you’re not a robot? An annoying pop-up asking you to confirm you’ve got the send list right?

Anyone using emails to send clinical information will understand the importance of confidentiality, but mistakes happen. Systems to prevent them have to balance with not making life too difficult and hindering one’s ability to get anything done. 

[Ghost Ship]

53 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

So who's responsible, if not Richard Wild? The CEO, the Minister, the tea lady? No one is asking him to ready every email but there has to be checks and balances in place to avoid things like that from happening. 

I agree with you - although I'd say he was accountable rather than responsible.  It certainly must be his job to ensure that the necessary processes and procedures are in place to prevent (or try to prevent) these kind of data breaches.  If it's not his job, that would seem a bit of a loophole.

4 hours ago, wrighty said:

... Data Protection rules, or more correctly fear of breaching data protection rules, hampers patient care. I get frustrated by it on a daily basis when I get emails about patients I have to identify using my skills at cryptic crossword solving...

Then that is a situation that cries out for proper education and training of staff, and accurate and pragmatic advice on GDPR law.  (My wife is a local authority lawyer and one of her specialist areas is GDPR law and she advises her employer's Social Services Dept. amongst others.  Since working from home I have frequently heard her explain to social workers etc that their understanding of GDPR law is wrong and that they are actually able to do what they want to do - so long as they go about it in the right way... )

 

EDIT:  And in my own trust our two resident GDPR experts were excellent - and knowledgeable.  They always took the view that you used GDPR to facilitate what you wanted to do, not as an excuse not to do it.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Ghost Ship

[Ghost Ship]

1 hour ago, Dr. Grumpy said:

Well, I'm told that the 'local Manx chap' Co-led the NPfIT disaster with......wait for it........

Sir Jonathan Michael

Do you know for sure that Michael was involved?  Even if he was, I'm not sure he'd be particularly blameworthy* for the IT failure side of it...

Is that the same Michael that did the report resulting in the commissioner/provider split on the island?

Funnily enough it was because I wanted to comment on that report that I joined Manx Forums last year, but I don't think I've actually posted on here about it yet.

I've had some experience of working in both NHS commissioning and providing, and having a split certainly can realise benefits.  But for a health economy the size of the Isle of Man's I can't believe that the additional and duplicated costs and structures of having a split can possibly justify the relatively small benefits that would accrue.  As a patient myself I have benefited from services provided by the NHS through non-NHS providers, but if you only have in effect a single provider (which I presume is the case on the IoM?), I can't see the advantage.  A purchaser/provider split is just a fall-back one size fits all solution, but the IoM is way too small.  (In the sense that it doesn't have enough competing providers that can easily enter the Manx healthcare market).

 

*The story I was told by a DoH civil servant was that it was a case of politicians (possibly Milburn and/or Reid?) who knew next to nothing about either the NHS or IT being persuaded by very clever IT salesmen that a new multi-billion national IT system would solve all the problems of the NHS, and that they had to have it now!  Could never happen on the IoM of course...

[Dr. Grumpy]

57 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said:

Do you know for sure that Michael was involved?  Even if he was, I'm not sure he'd be particularly blameworthy* for the IT failure side of it...

Is that the same Michael that did the report resulting in the commissioner/provider split on the island?

Funnily enough it was because I wanted to comment on that report that I joined Manx Forums last year, but I don't think I've actually posted on here about it yet.

I've had some experience of working in both NHS commissioning and providing, and having a split certainly can realise benefits.  But for a health economy the size of the Isle of Man's I can't believe that the additional and duplicated costs and structures of having a split can possibly justify the relatively small benefits that would accrue.  As a patient myself I have benefited from services provided by the NHS through non-NHS providers, but if you only have in effect a single provider (which I presume is the case on the IoM?), I can't see the advantage.  A purchaser/provider split is just a fall-back one size fits all solution, but the IoM is way too small.  (In the sense that it doesn't have enough competing providers that can easily enter the Manx healthcare market).

 

*The story I was told by a DoH civil servant was that it was a case of politicians (possibly Milburn and/or Reid?) who knew next to nothing about either the NHS or IT being persuaded by very clever IT salesmen that a new multi-billion national IT system would solve all the problems of the NHS, and that they had to have it now!  Could never happen on the IoM of course...

I don't know for sure but am trying to find out.

Reading this now

[Dr. Grumpy]

1 hour ago, Dr. Grumpy said:

I don't know for sure but am trying to find out.

Reading this now

I'm told that Wild was a manager on the purchaser side of NPfIT and that Sir Jonathan was the Managing Director of BT Health, the main provider (over £10 Billions worth apparently).

I'll post again with any further info

[cissolt]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://cryptome.org/nhs/nhs-sealedenvs1.doc&ved=2ahUKEwjpjYOv3ar3AhX8hv0HHVCAB2oQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0xa1ZAz7rr0h2aMV48b7W_

Someone who bears the same name is approving documents for NPfIT on behalf of the programme director.  

[Dr. Grumpy]

15 minutes ago, cissolt said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://cryptome.org/nhs/nhs-sealedenvs1.doc&ved=2ahUKEwjpjYOv3ar3AhX8hv0HHVCAB2oQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0xa1ZAz7rr0h2aMV48b7W_

Someone who bears the same name is approving documents for NPfIT on behalf of the programme director.  

Beautiful catch!

[finlo]

Mr Wild was just perusing this thread.

[Dr. Grumpy]

26 minutes ago, cissolt said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://cryptome.org/nhs/nhs-sealedenvs1.doc&ved=2ahUKEwjpjYOv3ar3AhX8hv0HHVCAB2oQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0xa1ZAz7rr0h2aMV48b7W_

Someone who bears the same name is approving documents for NPfIT on behalf of the programme director.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Michael

Sir Jonathan's wiki page says he was the head of BT Health at the same time

[Richard Wild]

I take full responsibility for the breach. Wrighty explains it well. Thank you Ian.

Others have described the situation well in terms of what needs to be done. There is a lot of training and awareness required to bring things into an appropriate level of compliance.  It is a very challenging environment but I believe we will get there.

I 100% support the programme Wrighty describes about a single integrated Manx Care Record. Done right, with clinical leadership and broad support it would transform service delivery for all.

I make no secret about working on the National Programme. I was a young technical architect working on linking GP systems to the National Spine - prescribing and appointment booking.  I also worked on the sealed envelops concept, the document linked above.

 

[craggy_steve]

8 hours ago, Ghost Ship said:

*The story I was told by a DoH civil servant was that it was a case of politicians (possibly Milburn and/or Reid?) who knew next to nothing about either the NHS or IT being persuaded by very clever IT salesmen that a new multi-billion national IT system would solve all the problems of the NHS, and that they had to have it now!  Could never happen on the IoM of course...

Politician was Tony Blair, IT Salesman was Bill Gates. 

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/npfit-mpp-2014-case-history.pdf
 

[Dr. Grumpy]

1 hour ago, Richard Wild said:

I take full responsibility for the breach. Wrighty explains it well. Thank you Ian.

Others have described the situation well in terms of what needs to be done. There is a lot of training and awareness required to bring things into an appropriate level of compliance.  It is a very challenging environment but I believe we will get there.

I 100% support the programme Wrighty describes about a single integrated Manx Care Record. Done right, with clinical leadership and broad support it would transform service delivery for all.

I make no secret about working on the National Programme. I was a young technical architect working on linking GP systems to the National Spine - prescribing and appointment booking.  I also worked on the sealed envelops concept, the document linked above.

 

Thank you Mr Wild, You've earned my respect by engaging with us forumers, accepting responsibility and by clarifying the queries.

Would you clarify a few more things please?

Did you know Sir Jonathan when he was with BT Health?

Did you have anything to do with him being asked to review IOM Health service? I don't remember seeing any calls to tender or similar.

As a Manxman and Manx taxpayer, are you comfortable with the insane amounts of money being thrown at this so called transformation? Or the succession of UK based managers and consultants walking away with unbelivable amounts of money while allegedly making plans to outsource a lot of care?

I am happy to be corrected if I've got this wrong. Thank you.