wrighty Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, cissolt said: Wrighty, did you feel like your advice wasn't being followed or passed on to ministers? I cant imagine the stress you and your colleagues must have gone through during the pandemic. You hit on an often overlooked issue with Henrietta, she decided to go ahead with her leave knowing that we were in the verge of a major crisis. I hope this wasn't a factor when considering border closures. At the start it was the opposite - I felt there was too much reliance put on the medical committee. Personally, I was the numbers droid, and I thought there was over-reliance on the modelling, as though I was some sort of fortune teller, being asked stuff like “how many patients will be on ITU at day 35”. The group were also asked to opine on things such as window-cleaners being allowed back to work. We were however frustrated by the comms and command structure. Gold/Silver/Bronze etc - I once quipped that our group was “plywood command”. As far as I am aware, Henrietta’s holiday was not considered regarding border closures. I also don’t begrudge her going on holiday - it was such a fast moving situation. I was in Northern Italy myself in mid February, just a week before it kicked off over there. Even at that point nobody really knew what was coming. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFairfax Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 6 hours ago, 0bserver said: Are you for real? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 4 hours ago, wrighty said: At the start it was the opposite - I felt there was too much reliance put on the medical committee. Personally, I was the numbers droid, and I thought there was over-reliance on the modelling, as though I was some sort of fortune teller, being asked stuff like “how many patients will be on ITU at day 35”. The group were also asked to opine on things such as window-cleaners being allowed back to work. We were however frustrated by the comms and command structure. Gold/Silver/Bronze etc - I once quipped that our group was “plywood command”. As far as I am aware, Henrietta’s holiday was not considered regarding border closures. I also don’t begrudge her going on holiday - it was such a fast moving situation. I was in Northern Italy myself in mid February, just a week before it kicked off over there. Even at that point nobody really knew what was coming. Thanks wrighty, I know it doesn't mean much from a random person on the internet. But thank you for all you have done during the pandemic especially in such difficult circumstances. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 5 hours ago, wrighty said: At the start it was the opposite - I felt there was too much reliance put on the medical committee. Personally, I was the numbers droid, and I thought there was over-reliance on the modelling, as though I was some sort of fortune teller, being asked stuff like “how many patients will be on ITU at day 35”. The group were also asked to opine on things such as window-cleaners being allowed back to work. We were however frustrated by the comms and command structure. Gold/Silver/Bronze etc - I once quipped that our group was “plywood command”. As far as I am aware, Henrietta’s holiday was not considered regarding border closures. I also don’t begrudge her going on holiday - it was such a fast moving situation. I was in Northern Italy myself in mid February, just a week before it kicked off over there. Even at that point nobody really knew what was coming. The whole response was over the top from the beginning. But this is about the toxic environment that exists within Manx Care and DHSC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better. Having said that.............. If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events. Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians??? This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Just now, Boris Johnson said: If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better. Having said that.............. If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events. Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians??? This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS. As was said many times by many people on here when Manx Care was first proposed...we all look forward in 5 years to the enquiry about why Manx Care was first proposed. Every 5 to 10 years we look into failing social care and health systems here...and learn...nothing. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeBrew Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said: If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better. Having said that.............. If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events. Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians??? This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS. I’m not suggesting we look to increase costs, but MPs get a budget to cover the staffing costs, as well as the cost of running a local office. So they can afford to pay a trusted advisor to help them work through what they are presented with by civil servants. Our MHKs are very much on their own and have to fully rely on civil servants, who may have their own agenda. https://www.theipsa.org.uk/mp-staffing-business-costs Edited May 17, 2022 by StrangeBrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 1 minute ago, StrangeBrew said: I’m not suggesting we look to increase costs, but MPs get a budget to cover the staffing costs, as well as the cost of running a local office. So they can afford to pay a trusted advisor to help them work through what they are presented with by civil servants. Our MHKs are very much on their own and have to fully rely on civil servants, who may have their own agenda. https://www.theipsa.org.uk/mp-staffing-business-costs UK politicians have a Party behind them, the staffing costs are more for admin and replying to minor stuff like a constituent moaning about dog shit on a pavement that our lot seem to revel in. The islands top CS should not need to be fact checked when they tell their minister stuff. That this is being implemented is shocking and a shows that our top CS are liars and cannot be trusted..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said: If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better. Having said that.............. If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events. Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians??? This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS. More for the band wagon, more wages, more pensions. Just cull the numbers at the top and if real independent advisers are being employed they should replace existing, excessive staff numbers. The entire government edifice is way too large. Many of us have said similar many times before so don't hold out much hope anything will be done. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: More for the band wagon, more wages, more pensions. Just cull the numbers at the top and if real independent advisers are being employed they should replace existing, excessive staff numbers. The entire government edifice is way too large. Many of us have said similar many times before so don't hold out much hope anything will be done. Such a review this term was already rejected by Alf Cannan 2 months ago. 5 more years of even much worse to eventually have to sort out....with a lot of sudden pain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 28 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said: If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better. Having said that.............. If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events. Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians??? This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS. Well quite. And of course if these people are appointed, the people who decide who they are will be the civil service, so they're hardly likely to rock the boat. It's also worth pointing out that the one Department where this sort of system operates already is the DfE with its maze of Executive Agencies and Boards. And it's probably the most useless Department around - even the DoI does some stuff, if not well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampsterkahn Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) It is interesting how the problem has been seen in Tynwald by CM in general terms perhaps as a “dilutional approach ’ rather than specific to the the case in question. Choosing to see it as a general attitude/ cultural problem “in Govt” that can be addressed by general changes in attitude, culture by training etc, The problem in fact could not have been more specific -a named individual, Dr Ransom, brought a case of unfair dismissal against the government and Gov. lost -and how. Further, in the course of that tribunal specific individuals working for government (not a whole Department) , were very clearly identified as being the sole cause of that unfair treatment and considerable evidence was forthcoming of their totally unacceptable behaviour as individuals towards her. There is no evidence (from this tribunal) that this behaviour was in some way a cultural norm for that or any other Department. On the basis of the tribunals findings, any general “improvements” should begin with action against these perpetrators. I may have missed hearing it,but recognising that the tribunal was about an individual being proven to have been treated badly, an apology to Dr Ranson would have been appropriate. Edited May 17, 2022 by hampsterkahn 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Well quite. And of course if these people are appointed, the people who decide who they are will be the civil service, so they're hardly likely to rock the boat. It's also worth pointing out that the one Department where this sort of system operates already is the DfE with its maze of Executive Agencies and Boards. And it's probably the most useless Department around - even the DoI does some stuff, if not well. Think the agencies were Lewins idea & moved on leaving a crock of shit behind! Scrap those & MDC and save probably £1m pa with all the civil service support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 just read the Manx radio blog of the statement etc, very underwhelming, as expected. Did enjoy Skelly censoring Faragher's question about censorship though....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Banker said: Think the agencies were Lewins idea & moved on leaving a crock of shit behind! Scrap those & MDC and save probably £1m pa with all the civil service support. Don't you know...running a £multi-millions health agency is just like running a hotel? ... ...Fawlty Towers. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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