IOM DHSC & MANX CARE

[Gladys]

2 hours ago, Blade Runner said:

If I have followed this correctly it's not just the dates not matching, there was minutes of meetings of "committees"  that were presented that are dated before these committees were even created.

That is not incompetence 

No, on the face of it,  it looks odd, possibly worse. 

But there may be an explanation.  These things happened over lockdown.  Perhaps what happened was that everyone agreed that a certain committee was needed but had not been formally constituted through whatever the process was, but there was still a need to do what the committee, when formally constituted, would do. So they were informally established as a forum and minutes were taken contemporaneously.  

What should have happened is that when formally established anything done by the informal group would be adopted by the formally established committe, particularly if a course of action arose from the earlier meetings. 

I am not justifying or trying to provide a convenient excuse for what may well prove to have been falsification, but until matters are fully explained it is easy to jump to a conclusion.  It may well be that the explanation is that there was some shenanigans, or it may be that a lack of regard for or understanding of formal processes and record keeping at a highly unusual time led to incorrect, or no, formal records being created. 

It could be anything on a scale from sloppy to incompetent to malicious to illegal, we don't know yet. 

[code99]

16 hours ago, Roxanne said:

That is not something that should be written by a government minister. He's not following the moral high ground nor behaving professionally. How very disappointing.

This is one of the problems with some people who are appointed to government. While they're keeping their heads down and not causing problems all is well but as soon as they feel whisper of negativity approach (or a large looming cloud) they immediately panic and when they panic all logic goes out of the window and they react in some way or another to protect themselves rather than showing themselves to be vulnerable. What a shame - I thought he might be a good one.

 

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

The island is very right wing, you only have to see the piles and piles of Daily Mails being unloaded at manx newsagents every day to know that

I am not DM reader, I am most certainly not 'right wing', but Mr Hopper has created in my view insurmountable problems for himself. It remains to be seen whether he resigns - I also thought he might be 'one of the good guys'...what a shame indeed. They are running out of good options to replace him if/when he goes, IMHO of course.

ETA: Perhaps Claire Christian? 

Edited August 27, 2022 by code99

[asitis]

6 minutes ago, Gladys said:

It could be anything on a scale from sloppy to incompetent to malicious to illegal, we don't know yet. 

Agreed, and if they had had their way, we would never have known !

[Gladys]

2 minutes ago, asitis said:

Agreed, and if they had had their way, we would never have known !

But, they didn't get their own way, so let's see what happens. The system in which so many have such little faith may well be working, so let it do its job. 

[cissolt]

4 hours ago, Blade Runner said:

If I have followed this correctly it's not just the dates not matching, there was minutes of meetings of "committees"  that were presented that are dated before these committees were even created.

That is not incompetence 

There was also claims that software was used in a meeting at a time when it wasn't available in government.  

[Dirty Buggane]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

I am not justifying or trying to provide a convenient excuse for what may well prove to have been falsification, but until matters are fully explained it is easy to jump to a conclusion.

You do seem to be trying thoe

[2112]

2 hours ago, code99 said:

 

I am not DM reader, I am most certainly not 'right wing', but Mr Hopper has created in my view insurmountable problems for himself. It remains to be seen whether he resigns - I also thought he might be 'one of the good guys'...what a shame indeed. They are running out of good options to replace him if/when he goes, IMHO of course.

ETA: Perhaps Claire Christian? 

Clare Christian - I would reckon she’s wouldn’t want to harm her reputation getting involved in either DHSC, DOI or …..,  

[BriT]

3 hours ago, code99 said:

 ETA: Perhaps Claire Christian? 

I can’t imagine her wanting to be seen dead in either the DfE or the DOI. She campaigned for the promenade business owners whose businesses were destroyed by the DOI and for the covid support schemes.

[Non-Believer]

She has already served as a departmental member of DOI, 2020 - 21 until the end of the last administration.

[2112]

CM Cannan has a terrible dilemma in that he can’t find anyone capable, intelligent and possibly willing to do DfE. Coupled with the likelihood of Hooperman either resigning or CM Cannan having no option but to dismiss him. Problems of IOMG and also CM Cannan who can’t feign surprise as he was part of the previous administration, he was part of previous decision making process, and previous decisions and actions have resulted in consequences, which in this case is going to cost the island heavily financially, a heavy reputation and also result in a terrible atmosphere are poor working morale. 
 

 

[2112]

2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

She has already served as a departmental member of DOI, 2020 - 21 until the end of the last administration.

She may have been offered a minister role - who knows - but she could have turned it down. Perhaps she could see the future? 

[The Voice of Reason]

6 hours ago, P.K. said:

Quite.

The island is very right wing, you only have to see the piles and piles of Daily Mails being unloaded at manx newsagents every day to know that, 

I think most know what sort of a rag that so called newspaper that is.

However I did catch a rare sight of a solitary Guardian newspaper being unloaded at one newsagent.

I wonder which particular reader that was destined for😄

[Two-lane]

3 hours ago, Gladys said:

But, they didn't get their own way, so let's see what happens

I think that you are in the class of "extreme moderate" people. You always look on the good side of people (except maybe me).

Yes, we will see what happens, but one can at this time also form an opinion about the behaviour of the government and its lawyers.

Ranson's lawyers have stated that (if not all, then most) documents have been delivered to them late, or extremely late. That has hampered their preparations for the case. During Thursday's hearing the Deemster when commenting on statements made by the gov.'s advocate, several times he shrugged his shoulders and said "You are out of time", or pointed out - pointedly- that the Tribunal document was published at the start of May.

This is behaviour I would expect from an East End lawyer representing an East End second-hand car dealer who had sold a car in which the wheels fell off.

It is not the behaviour I would expect from a government department and its legal team.

[footnote]

When I say "expect", actually I mean it is par for the course for this IoM gov.

[Roger Mexico]

As was inevitable (I've been checking YouTube all day) the Chris and Paul show returns to discuss the latest developments in the Ranson case:

Joined Andrew Langan-Newton the Green Party leader and more relevantly a practicing lawyer.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Roger Mexico
Got name wrong

[code99]

2 hours ago, 2112 said:

Clare Christian - I would reckon she’s wouldn’t want to harm her reputation getting involved in either DHSC, DOI or …..,  

 

1 hour ago, BriT said:

I can’t imagine her wanting to be seen dead in either the DfE or the DOI. She campaigned for the promenade business owners whose businesses were destroyed by the DOI and for the covid support schemes.

I take your point about the Health portfolio – under the circumstances who would want that poisoned chalice? I may be wrong but I would have thought that DfE would be an interesting proposition for someone with business experience and gumption.