Dirty Buggane Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 13 minutes ago, Mercenary said: First test for new AG? Yes but seeing as all this crap went down under the old AG can he not be still held accountable. Even if he just happen's to chose to retire at an opportune moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshoremanxman Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 21 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said: Yes but seeing as all this crap went down under the old AG can he not be still held accountable. Even if he just happen's to chose to retire at an opportune moment. He’s dead! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Sorry to his family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Jarndyce said: I think she’s talking about following NICE guidance on medicines and tech/procedures. The UK government insist that NICE guidance is followed in a set timeframe after implementation. But funding is made available (not quite that straightforward, but in a nutshell). So, if an expensive drug gains NICE approval, it must be available to be prescribed and the guidance must be followed. IOMG DHSC is not strictly part of the UK NHS, and therefore is under no legal obligation to fund NICE approved drugs and tech, while still giving lip service to following the guidance. The big problem arises if a patient is under, eg a Clatterbridge consultant who wants to use a drug which is approved in England but unfunded in the island - cue some very unhappy patients and consultants OR a very unhappy Treasury. Guess who wins. Anyway, it sounds like they’re having a serious look at how to actually fund NICE approved drugs, etc. My understanding of it - I stand to be corrected, of course. That was roughly what I thought they were talking about as well, but Cope could have explained it better or Manx Radio at least realised what they had written would be meaningless to nearly everyone and tried to find out and explain what she meant. Health management nowadays tends to use do much jargon (some justified, some not) that they forget everyone outside their tiny world has no idea what they are talking about. I've never understood why the Island didn't agree to follow NICE guidelines anyway, only differing when they had explicit reasons. If nothing else it would protect them from people demanding the latest expensive, dubious wonderdrug ("Not recommended by NICE"). I suppose it gave the chance of someone in the bureaucracy. with the pharmacological knowledge of a dead cockroach, to play God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Dirty Buggane said: Yes but seeing as all this crap went down under the old AG can he not be still held accountable. John Quinn died in December (and I think was ill a bit before) and the problems with disclosure were actually apparent during the hearings in January, despite which stuff continued to not appear. So responsibility would have to lie with the Acting Head of Chambers - who is now the new AG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Cope could have explained it better or Manx Radio at least realised what they had written would be meaningless to nearly everyone What Manx Radio wrote WAS essentially meaningless - they managed their “explanation” without mentioning NICE! 18 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: I've never understood why the Island didn't agree to follow NICE guidelines anyway, only differing when they had explicit reasons. If nothing else it would protect them from people demanding the latest expensive, dubious wonderdrug ("Not recommended by NICE"). I suppose it gave the chance of someone in the bureaucracy. with the pharmacological knowledge of a dead cockroach, to play God. I suspect it was all about money. As Cope said, if NICE funding had been baked in two decades ago, the cost would have gone up gradually year by year - now, there’s all the past and current drugs to fund, in addition to future drugs - and it’s an eye-watering sum to find. Added to the historical underfunding of £8-10M from 2003 (now referred to as a “year on year overspend” 🤔), it’s a hard sell to Treasury. Of course, it’s human nature that the people who complain about NICE drugs/procedures not being available for them or their friends and family are often the same ones who complain about DHSC overspending on its budget… Edited September 3, 2022 by Jarndyce Punctuation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake Up Call Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 MF contains 1000's of posts about how sh*t and corrupt IOM Government is. This latest 'reveal' is a real benchmark. As a nation, we are well and truly f*cked with this gang of total clowns involved. Everything they touch is doomed and all down to the gloriously inept and crooked civil service. (We allow this to happen mind you.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 2 hours ago, offshoremanxman said: He’s dead! the perfect scapegoat then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, WTF said: 2 hours ago, offshoremanxman said: He’s dead! the perfect scapegoat then. A bit crass… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 10 hours ago, BriT said: The closing comments about the perceived impact on her future career are quite brutal. But Douglas Stewart also said that Anna Heeley had regularly represented various Government Departments in this Tribunal. In other litigation, she has always done so without causing any concern to the Tribunal when fulfilling her duty to her client, to the Tribunal and in dealing fairly with the other party. So he's hinting that he thinks the problem isn't with her personally and may be a wider problem with how the case was handled. This latest Decision also tells us what the Order the DHSC appealed about said: “Ms Heeley must provide details of the entire approach she adopted to ensure proper disclosure and highlighting and explaining where and how matters had gone wrong. Mr Murray rightly reminded the Tribunal that there had been a very late request by the Respondent for an adjournment before the commencement of the January Hearing which was refused. The Tribunal also recalled that Ms Heeley had explained the shortage of support staff during preparation”. Although Stewart doesn't say so (the Appeal hasn't been heard yet) this clearly doesn't breach client privilege as the DHSC claim. It's about process not content. Unless of course part of the process was the DHSC and the AGC agreeing not to disclose incriminating documents. In which case both are in even more serious trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: A bit crass… give 'em a call https://www.samaritans.org/branches/isle-of-man/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Jarndyce said: What Manx Radio wrote WAS essentially meaningless - they managed their “explanation” without mentioning NICE! I suspect it was all about money. As Cope said, if NICE funding had been baked in two decades ago, the cost would have gone up gradually year by year - now, there’s all the past and current drugs to fund, in addition to future drugs - and it’s an eye-watering sum to find. Added to the historical underfunding of £8-10M from 2003 (now referred to as a “year on year overspend” 🤔), it’s a hard sell to Treasury. Of course, it’s human nature that the people who complain about NICE drugs/procedures not being available for them or their friends and family are often the same ones who complain about DHSC overspending on its budget… Well if we want a properly funded health service then we have to pay for it & that means higher taxes/NI & more people to pay taxes not a bunch of old retirees! If course no one wants to pay but expects everything for free including prescriptions, Tv , heating allowances etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: So responsibility would have to lie with the Acting Head of Chambers - who is now the new AG. According to the government website the post is still vacant. https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/offices/attorney-generals-chambers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Banker said: Well if we want a properly funded health service then we have to pay for it & that means higher taxes/NI & more people to pay taxes not a bunch of old retirees! If course no one wants to pay but expects everything for free including prescriptions, Tv , heating allowances etc Yes, maybe. It would certainly help if Government was primarily focussed on the delivery of essential services, in the most efficient manner and the elimination of waste. Unfortunately, it is an unwieldy bureaucracy that diverts valuable resources into activities that achieve very little, in terms of service delivery. Until that is addressed, any improvement in the delivery of health services, for example, will require additional funding, some of which will be diverted to fund even more bureaucracy. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 39 minutes ago, wrighty said: According to the government website the post is still vacant. https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/offices/attorney-generals-chambers/ He hasn't been formally appointed yet, has he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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