IOM DHSC & MANX CARE

[WTF]

10 hours ago, hampsterkahn said:

 

No,no, that  is clearly a mistake ( hypo/ hyper),  John.

Such unfortunate errors do  happen 

Many many years  ago, on MR, news casts throughout the day reported  a coroner’s inquest listing  the causes  of someone’s very sad and untimely death.High on the list  was   “Severe amnesia”.

It  obviously  did not mean they  “forgot” to breathe.Most reasonable people I think,  realised it should have read   “anaemia”.

isn't severe amnesia dementia ?

[KERED]

23 minutes ago, WTF said:

isn't severe amnesia dementia ?

Dunno - can't remember.   😀

[Apple]

58 minutes ago, 2112 said:

You are right in this. I am opinion that the island’s authorities as a whole are somewhat oblivious to the true scale of the problem. Some Adult Mental Health cases are  somewhat minor but result in petty and serious crime and wasted taxpayers resources. These case studies illustrate how sadly people are neglected even when receiving the support. Either way it’s another Manx success story to join the other success.  

Its ok - Police Chief implies its all our fault.

From Manx radio report "Gary Roberts believes there will be people on the Island living like this right now, and it's up to the community to keep an eye on them".

Go figure.

 

[wrighty]

14 hours ago, cissolt said:

 

Some tragic stories in the news of seven Manx residents dying, some due to a lack of action by adult mental health.  An awful indictment of our mental health services.

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/safeguarding-review-after-death-of-seven-manx-residents-from-self-neglect/

I didn’t read it as an ‘awful indictment of our mental health services’, more that it is incredibly difficult to help people who don’t want it, while making strategic suggestions for improvements. Reading those cases, you could have the finest, most qualified, comprehensive and integrated social and mental health service in the world, and people would still be dying of suicide/self-neglect in tragic circumstances. Short of evicting people from their homes and locking them up for their own good (and that doesn’t generally go down well as a policy) it is sometimes the case that despite everyone’s best efforts there’s not much can be done. 

[HiVibes]

Sounds like Robin did well, kept well away from social services and lived till his eighties in his own, home, quite an achievement really. Would his life have been much better slumped in a chair in some old folks home? 

[lawfulintrigue]

Unfortunately with any highly qualified mental health and social services team the breakdown is in networking and communication. If someone is supported by either team there appears to be a lack of co-ordination and if someone is on holiday or off ill the individual in the 'system' is somehow forgotten and a lot can happen in an hour never mind weeks.

[Roger Mexico]

7 hours ago, Apple said:

In all fairness it isn't just Mental Health services in as much as communications and actions between different agencies.

However, the real tragedy is that these events are sadly reminiscent of those described in the Lesley Enquiry Report several years ago. Those recommendations were accepted and a never again response was made. There were policies, procedures and mechanisms put in place to prevent recurrences.

They say history repeats itself. So very sad. 

The trouble is that these people are bureaucrats and the only solutions they can think of are bureaucratic ones.  So more committees and more paperwork.  Not the change in attitudes or flexibility in thinking that might actually help some of these people, just a lot of officials sitting round agreeing that it's all too difficult to do something and the best solution is to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

Now of course some of these people are very difficult to help.  They can't see their problems or are too proud to admit them or are scared of the authorities.   They are locked in particular ways of thinking that need imagination and persistence to alter.  No every case is treatable but more could be, but it needs a change in attitude on both sides, rather than a refusal to alter the way things are done by the authorities.

And it probably needs less in the way of formal meetings (as opposed to people in different agencies talking) not least because most of those involved could be doing something more useful with their time.

[Roger Mexico]

41 minutes ago, HiVibes said:

Sounds like Robin did well, kept well away from social services and lived till his eighties in his own, home, quite an achievement really. Would his life have been much better slumped in a chair in some old folks home? 

Not really.  If you read the Manx Radio piece (again another decent length of reporting, they do seem to be getting better), then he was living in pretty miserable circumstances for the last two decades of his life.  If he'd been moved to sheltered housing, he'd have been much happier I suspect and his home wouldn't have been falling apart.

[Apple]

2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Not the change in attitudes or flexibility in thinking that might actually help some of these people, just a lot of officials sitting round agreeing that it's all too difficult to do something and the best solution is to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

There are, and have been, some really caring and skilled people in mental health and social services, some of whom are flexible , imaginative and able to develop and maintain therapeutic relationships and help / support very difficult and challenging people in desperate circumstances. That is seen nearly every day and in the most serious of mental health conditions.

We will never see the evidence of what happened , or didn't, with these individuals and more is the pit that Manx Care have yet again been allowed to mark their own homework as Cope and Shaw and the interim CEO of DHSC were on the review panel.

Until we develop a purely independent body properly resourced to investigate or review these situations - you know, like a Tynwald committee like a Social Affairs Policy group or something then these events will go down just 'par for the course' by some. 

Still, at least Tynwald were ale to make recommendation on their emoluments recently about retirement and suspensions etc etc which obviously has the higher priority. 

[HiVibes]

2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Not really.  If you read the Manx Radio piece (again another decent length of reporting, they do seem to be getting better), then he was living in pretty miserable circumstances for the last two decades of his life.  If he'd been moved to sheltered housing, he'd have been much happier I suspect and his home wouldn't have been falling apart.

How can you assume that he would be happier in care? And knowing what social workers are like over here they will exagerate anything like the conditions of his home to suit what ever agenda they are pursuing.

He probably knew once you get into the system they are not going to let you out, and pleasures like enjoying a tipple or having a ciggie and all other vices like setting your own bedtime, what you eat, watch or when you wake up get taken away. 

He refused help, and they could not get him on not being of sound mind or they would have. What is wrong about staying well away from government and making your own choices, if it hurts no one else?

[cissolt]

1 hour ago, wrighty said:

I didn’t read it as an ‘awful indictment of our mental health services’, more that it is incredibly difficult to help people who don’t want it, while making strategic suggestions for improvements. Reading those cases, you could have the finest, most qualified, comprehensive and integrated social and mental health service in the world, and people would still be dying of suicide/self-neglect in tragic circumstances. Short of evicting people from their homes and locking them up for their own good (and that doesn’t generally go down well as a policy) it is sometimes the case that despite everyone’s best efforts there’s not much can be done. 

I guess it's a matter of interpretation.  I read it and see police issuing marfs and then not being acted upon by cmhs.

[hampsterkahn]

 

If we are working on the basis that for a society can be called civilised  it should have provision to  look after  those who,  for whatever reason, are unable to do so themselves, then It is a high ideal and difficult to reach.

That doesn’t mean the aim should ever be lowered, but we need to be realistic and acknowledge we aren’t always  going reach it.

There is always going to be a need for improvement.

This needs  a lot of organisational agility -in thinking and the ability to adapt rapidly after honest, candid and careful analyses.

In any organisation  good communication is a fundamental but here it can attain literally vital significance. 

Not least it is important between the “front line”and their managers, lest the former feel demoralised and unsupported from a distant and growing office bound administration.

 

 

 

[GD4ELI]

4 hours ago, Apple said:

Its ok - Police Chief implies its all our fault.

From Manx radio report "Gary Roberts believes there will be people on the Island living like this right now, and it's up to the community to keep an eye on them".

Go figure.

It is up to the community; you can't expect the authorities to keep an eye on every elderly person. Until recently I was checking my elderly neighbour, she's now moved in with her son a few counties away.

[Declan]

9 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

Until recently I was checking my elderly neighbour, she's now moved in with her son a few counties away.

Couldn't she just take out a restraining order?

[manxfisherman]

11 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

It is up to the community; you can't expect the authorities to keep an eye on every elderly person.

Not only can't you expect the authorities to keep an eye on everyone, nor should you want them to.