IOM DHSC & MANX CARE

[WTF]

51 minutes ago, wrighty said:

. I don’t buy all this hippie “It’s perfectly natural” garbage.  

well it is perfectly natural, it just carries risks that can be mitigated against by being in a decent medical facility , and for the record my mum was a midwife that did home births in the UK in the late 60's and early 70's , i was sometimes downstairs in peoples houses with a box of lego to play with during school holidays , new baby due = new lego set to build, it worked for me, i was a home birth and so was my brother.

[Apple]

7 hours ago, Jarndyce said:

Apple, what would these changes be?   In your view?

@JarndyceStarts here;

https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/opqp/sittings/20212026/2022-GD-0088.pdf

and 

https://www.gov.im/media/1376246/dhsc-engagement-strategy-2022-2025.pdf 

It's not necessarily what these reports say but what they don't. 

The first thing we need to do is recognise that where the IoM stands now has been brought about by circumstances on the IoM itself.

[Apple]

2 hours ago, wrighty said:

Not all legislation is perfect is it?

Don't know. Best ask John Wright - it's his field.

[Gladys]

6 hours ago, wrighty said:

Not all legislation is perfect is it?

No, but it isn't voluntary either. 

[0bserver]

10 minutes ago, Gladys said:

No, but it isn't voluntary either. 

It is if you're a government department (or at least they think it is)

[The Voice of Reason]

6 hours ago, wrighty said:

Personal opinion here - anyone opting for a home birth for baby number one should be counselled strongly that it’s not a good idea, and I certainly don’t believe the health service should be compelled to provide such a service, which is undoubtedly riskier than a hospital birth. 
 

(My No.2 and No.3 were born at home, but we only did this because No. 1 had been quick and straightforward, and scans etc showed no anticipated problems. And this was still riskier than going into hospital. I don’t buy all this hippie “It’s perfectly natural” garbage.  Appendicitis is perfectly natural too.)

Well for what it’s worth, can I offer my own experience ( well my mother’s experience ). This was all across.

Her first baby was stillborn in the hospital . The nurses saw fit to offer her someone else’s baby born a few hours later to hold to her chest. She still talked about it for decades later about the distress it caused.

My elder brother was born all OK maybe a couple of years later in the hospital.

Two years later ( early 1960’s) I was born at home which all went OK.

I’m not saying which is right or wrong but my mum was very keen that I should be born at home.

[Gladys]

3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well for what it’s worth, can I offer my own experience ( well my mother’s experience ). This was all across.

Her first baby was stillborn in the hospital . The nurses saw fit to offer her someone else’s baby born a few hours later to hold to her chest. She still talked about it for decades later about the distress it caused.

My elder brother was born all OK maybe a couple of years later in the hospital.

Two years later ( early 1960’s) I was born at home which all went OK.

I’m not saying which is right or wrong but my mum was very keen that I should be born at home.

That is so sad, but stillbirth is a very difficult experience both for staff and the parents.  I am not sure it is yet being handled very well, but it does seem to be improving with a greater acceptance of the huge impact on everyone involved. Let's  face it, staff in a maternity ward want to see healthy outcomes. 

I can only recall my own experience, and to be honest, I cannot recall if how it was handled at the time by the hospital made it any better or worse.  It was devastating and nothing could have changed that.  But I do remember I was put in a ward away from the mothers who had delivered successfully so I wouldn't hear the babies crying.  It didn't actually help for obvious reasons, and I discharged myself early. 

Perhaps at the time, the received wisdom was that giving a baby to a mother would stimulate physical stuff to help the mother recover. 

Rotten, and not something that is easily forgotten. 

[Apple]

Some sad memories on here this evening but also some bravery in relation personal experiences. Thank you.

I think there were memorial services hosted recently by Midwifery services. 

In terms of home births I assume it must be mothers choice surely. Im assuming of corse that options for care are still available with advice and support from Midwives and Consultants.

Quote from the article:-

The commissioner also found that Miss Magson’s statement to her investigation was ‘intended to mask the reality’ that home births are not routinely available on the Island. 

Why I am no longer surprised with comments like this.?                 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Apple
add last bit.

[Ghost Ship]

12 hours ago, Cinderella said:

But presumably if they want to train across or do advanced training for things like ICU, theatre etc, that costs

Trusts in the UK should have access to training funds earmarked for post-registration training.  (It's not something individual members of staff would be expected to fund themselves).

I'd have thought Manx Care would have similar provision.

[Ghost Ship]

17 hours ago, Cinderella said:

There is a shortage worldwide, which begs the question, Why? And how can IoM become an employer of choice for HCA? Inevitably you end up circling back to recruitment and retention basics:

- Base pay (one shouldn’t have to always do overtime to make a living wage)...

 

I may very well be wrong but aren't healthcare professionals in the IoM paid on the same Agenda for Change payscales as in the UK?

I'd expect newly qualified (ie registered*) non-medical professional staff to start at Band 5 going from about £27k up to about £30k+.  Is that a reasonable** annual salary in the IoM?  I've no idea.

Fwiw I've heard a lot of stories in the UK about qualified nurses having to resort to using food banks to feed themselves.  I don't know, but it really doesn't sound very likely to me...

 

*Unqualified HCAs aren't paid enough anywhere.

**  Assuming AfC payscales apply

[Andy Onchan]

Is it more "difficult" to get into nursing than it was, say, thirty years ago?

[wrighty]

5 hours ago, Ghost Ship said:

Trusts in the UK should have access to training funds earmarked for post-registration training.  (It's not something individual members of staff would be expected to fund themselves).

I'd have thought Manx Care would have similar provision.

We do. Study leave funding here is far better than anything I ever encountered in the UK. 

[Banker]

5 hours ago, Ghost Ship said:

I may very well be wrong but aren't healthcare professionals in the IoM paid on the same Agenda for Change payscales as in the UK?

I'd expect newly qualified (ie registered*) non-medical professional staff to start at Band 5 going from about £27k up to about £30k+.  Is that a reasonable** annual salary in the IoM?  I've no idea.

Fwiw I've heard a lot of stories in the UK about qualified nurses having to resort to using food banks to feed themselves.  I don't know, but it really doesn't sound very likely to me...

 

*Unqualified HCAs aren't paid enough anywhere.

**  Assuming AfC payscales apply

They’re higher here than UK accustomed Mrs Cope & will get higher as they’ve been offered 6% here compared to 5% 

[wrighty]

12 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Is it more "difficult" to get into nursing than it was, say, thirty years ago?

It was about 30 years ago that ‘project 2000’ was brought in, with the aim being that by 2000 all nurses would have a degree. Before then it was possible to go into nurse training with only O-level/CSE qualifications, and it was seen as something that women could do (sexist, yes, I know) after having children since nursing, at its fundamental level (to look after the needs of patients which they are unable to do themselves such as feeding, cleaning, toileting etc), has much in common with being a mother. 
 

Many in the profession thought this was a mistake, and many still do. Whatever your views however, it certainly made it more difficult to get into nurse training by ruling out the less academic.

[Andy Onchan]

50 minutes ago, wrighty said:

It was about 30 years ago that ‘project 2000’ was brought in, with the aim being that by 2000 all nurses would have a degree. Before then it was possible to go into nurse training with only O-level/CSE qualifications, and it was seen as something that women could do (sexist, yes, I know) after having children since nursing, at its fundamental level (to look after the needs of patients which they are unable to do themselves such as feeding, cleaning, toileting etc), has much in common with being a mother. 
 

Many in the profession thought this was a mistake, and many still do. Whatever your views however, it certainly made it more difficult to get into nurse training by ruling out the less academic.

I rest my case.