Apple Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Gladys said: But you said she was given time out to recover her composure. What else should he do? I don't make the rules for how the Tribunal operates so I guess its up to him is the point I was making. The other point is that sometimes Barristers are not quite straightforward and clear. I've read novels and watched TV about how they strategise and try to trick people into saying things they either shouldn't or didn't mean. Not relevant in this case I'm sure. Though seriously the island will be better off when all this is over. We won't find out the finances, compensation or costs I imagine, but from a reputation point of view then afterwards maybe the damage can start to be repaired, although the Manx Care Board papers showed an amount against four anaesthetists which suggest that is an issue yet to be resolved?? We should aspire to be better than the picture being portrayed, which in my view lets down good clinicians, destroys trust and confidence and leaves a sour taste about how these situations, and others not in the wider domain of public knowledge, have arisen. The public's well being needs it. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Roxanne said: You’re absolutely right. There really have been no lessons learned. They’re still at it. IOMG/Treasury will pay up in a graceless, dismissive and horrible manner. In the process, this ‘tribunal’ or damages hearing will put emotional damage and put Dr Ranson through the wringer, to show the rest of the ‘plebs’ that we are ultimately in control, we pull the strings rightly or wrongly, you will get your damages but you will pay a heavy price - in this case more vitriol and trying to nitpick in point by point rebuttal. Madness, it should be done graciously and move on. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Apple said: I don't make the rules for how the Tribunal operates so I guess its up to him is the point I was making. The other point is that sometimes Barristers are not quite straightforward and clear. I've read novels and watched TV about how they strategise and try to trick people into saying things they either shouldn't or didn't mean. Not relevant in this case I'm sure. Though seriously the island will be better off when all this is over. We won't find out the finances, compensation or costs I imagine, but from a reputation point of view then afterwards maybe the damage can start to be repaired, although the Manx Care Board papers showed an amount against four anaesthetists which suggest that is an issue yet to be resolved?? We should aspire to be better than the picture being portrayed, which in my view lets down good clinicians, destroys trust and confidence and leaves a sour taste about how these situations, and others not in the wider domain of public knowledge, have arisen. The public's well being needs it. Completely agree that this whole saga has been immensely damaging for the health service, but also for the whole island in every aspect, not least the damage to the GMP's confidence in its own government, which seems to be of no importance. At some point someone, somewhere should have made a distinction between self-preservation and preservation of the public good. As you say, this is not the only example, there are others. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, 2112 said: IOMG/Treasury will pay up in a graceless, dismissive and horrible manner. In the process, this ‘tribunal’ or damages hearing will put emotional damage and put Dr Ranson through the wringer, to show the rest of the ‘plebs’ that we are ultimately in control, we pull the strings rightly or wrongly, you will get your damages but you will pay a heavy price - in this case more vitriol and trying to nitpick in point by point rebuttal. Madness, it should be done graciously and move on. Can't disagree. Like the point about graciously. Not even a hint of that today. Should never have got to this stage. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Apple said: I wouldn't presume to know what the Chair thought. Or any barrister come to that. ! I do know it was uncomfortable to watch and probably didn't help the DHSC's case much. Minister involvement, I wouldn't know. Take a guess. I’ll be surprised if there wasn’t any ministerial involvement. What I would say that the other departmental members will probably remain silent, whilst allowing the departments highly taxpayer paid funded legal representation, trying to chip away in the hope of reducing damages. Perhaps some could argue, that this is bullying a person of the opposite sex, rather intimidating. Still I suppose some would say it could be justified if it saves the taxpayer a few quid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Apple said: Can't disagree. Like the point about graciously. Not even a hint of that today. Should never have got to this stage. It could have settled without long and protracted blood letting of a 3/4 day hearing, more cost to the taxpayer, and very negative headlines. Again this is bound to be featured in a Paul Moulton IOMTV bulletins, broadcast to a wider audience. As others have already pointed out, when the island is desperately needing nursing and other medical professionals to come here, to work and more importantly to live, how can this sorry saga be a shining beacon to locate.im and the other Government Quangos obsessed with wasting taxpayer money. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, 2112 said: It could have settled without long and protracted blood letting of a 3/4 day hearing, more cost to the taxpayer, and very negative headlines. Again this is bound to be featured in a Paul Moulton IOMTV bulletins, broadcast to a wider audience. As others have already pointed out, when the island is desperately needing nursing and other medical professionals to come here, to work and more importantly to live, how can this sorry saga be a shining beacon to locate.im and the other Government Quangos obsessed with wasting taxpayer money. To be fair, we don’t know if a negotiated settlement had been explored and, if not, which side was reluctant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Gladys said: To be fair, we don’t know if a negotiated settlement had been explored and, if not, which side was reluctant. You are right, I’m sure though in the fullness of time, we will find out. We don’t know what further revelations could come out, or what Dr Ransom has to say. The first day of the damages hearing has revealed that how Dr Ransom is taking defamation action against Dr Allinson ( if this were to happen in the UK Cabinet, they would resign their role to defend the case). CM Cannan hasn’t come out smelling of roses either or in a glowing light. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 They certainly don't seem to be applying their oft used mantra of "moving on" Learning lessons" do they ? The continued washing of dirty linen in public is doing the island as a whole no favours, and I hope it's worth it in the end ! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 6 hours ago, 2112 said: It could have settled without long and protracted blood letting of a 3/4 day hearing, more cost to the taxpayer, and very negative headlines. Again this is bound to be featured in a Paul Moulton IOMTV bulletins, broadcast to a wider audience. As others have already pointed out, when the island is desperately needing nursing and other medical professionals to come here, to work and more importantly to live, how can this sorry saga be a shining beacon to locate.im and the other Government Quangos obsessed with wasting taxpayer money. I'm not so sure, as otherwise it will happen again, and again...and again, as it has been happening for many decades. It is a remit for radical change and a rout, if not by this government, then hopefully by people driving it in the next election for the next government. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 7 hours ago, Gladys said: To be fair, we don’t know if a negotiated settlement had been explored and, if not, which side was reluctant. Please don't give them ideas, they would end up settling at £12million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 The hearing sounds bleak and the continued awful treatment of Dr Ranson is deplorable. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 20 minutes ago, cissolt said: The hearing sounds bleak and the continued awful treatment of Dr Ranson is deplorable. Today's hearing will be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Expol were previously called in by the same people to produce a slam-dunk report on Abbotswood. That went well. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/police-called-in-to-abbotswood-investigation/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 12 minutes ago, Augustus said: Expol were previously called in by the same people to produce a slam-dunk report on Abbotswood. That went well. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/police-called-in-to-abbotswood-investigation/ Who or what exactly are Expol and what makes them qualified to say what's fake and what isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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