IOM DHSC & MANX CARE

[Gladys]

48 minutes ago, WTF said:

it usually means still being paid. 

Indeed, so it is "suspended pending investigation". 

[WTF]

probably

[hissingsid]

So that would have been the obvious way of passage but these four are still working doing what is unclear.   This makes me wonder if Manx Care have not been as vigilant as they should have been and whatever proceedures have taken place should have been noticed before this tragedy occurred.   I am sure it will all come out in the wash and lessons will be learned, that will not help this poor man’s grieving family of course.

[code99]

6 hours ago, AngelicaJ said:

I have recently had a terrible experience at Nobles re treatment for a serious leg infection, incorrect antibiotics prescribed, Antibiotic drip contained part penicillin when I said I was allergic to it and then discharged after being told the infection was under control, when my leg was still clearly badly infected. 
if it hadn’t have been for my wonderful GP, I ‘m not quite sure how  I would have faired. The whole situation has not given me any confidence in Nobles at all, and been a pretty scary experience

My deepest sympathies to you for what must have been a very traumatic experience. Medical blunders like what you have described should not be happening anywhere, let alone in a hospital in a first world country with one of the highest GDPs per capita in the world. I hope you raised a complaint.

Over the years patients’ experience at Nobles had differed vastly. For some it has been quite positive, while for others it has been nothing short of professional negligence, hence the barrage of complaints. IMHO, one of the problems is that they don’t not seem to have rigorous enough recruitment process to make sure that anyone who is hired upholds certain professional standards (it began to sound more and more like the DOI). From memory, there was an ophthalmologist who had been found out for unsuitable professional qualifications, and then there was also a surgeon who screwed up a colonoscopy procedure… Some patients are now afraid to go near Nobles in case they won’t make it out. There seems to be a growing general consensus that ‘if this is the calibre of medical staff they employ, then I would prefer to be treated elsewhere’.

Personally, I don’t mind paying some sort of extra ‘tax’; e.g., an NHS levy over and above the NI which would enable to encourage better quality medical professionals (who still believe in the Hippocratic Oath they supposedly took) to move to the Island. My view is that as a community we must make this choice soon – but only for those who can afford it. Poor and vulnerable must be protected by the taxpayers.

Notwithstanding the fantastic contribution that various charity organisations provide, they can only do so much and cannot be reliant upon for everything. I agree with @asitis that (in this respect at least) the IOMG is falling short in doing its duty of care to all residents. Sure, the situation in the UK is arguably similar, but I am not in favour of the race to the bottom. The big uncertainty of course is whether the additional funds will be put to good use for the benefits of the IOM patients or will they be squandered on unnecessary admin/ management and other jollies for Manx Care.

Incidentally, I cannot see the justification for creating Manx Care in the first place – the efforts and resources could have been better spent on meaningful reforms and targeted improvements within the Department of Health and Social Care. Time will tell if Manx Care really can make a measurable difference. I hope their creation turns out to be a right decision. If not, then the consequences of such ‘mistake’ will last for years and might even become catastrophic/disastrous.

[finlo]

25 minutes ago, code99 said:

My deepest sympathies to you for what must have been a very traumatic experience. Medical blunders like what you have described should not be happening anywhere, let alone in a hospital in a first world country with one of the highest GDPs per capita in the world. I hope you raised a complaint.

Over the years patients’ experience at Nobles had differed vastly. For some it has been quite positive, while for others it has been nothing short of professional negligence, hence the barrage of complaints. IMHO, one of the problems is that they don’t not seem to have rigorous enough recruitment process to make sure that anyone who is hired upholds certain professional standards (it began to sound more and more like the DOI). From memory, there was an ophthalmologist who had been found out for unsuitable professional qualifications, and then there was also a surgeon who screwed up a colonoscopy procedure… Some patients are now afraid to go near Nobles in case they won’t make it out. There seems to be a growing general consensus that ‘if this is the calibre of medical staff they employ, then I would prefer to be treated elsewhere’.

Personally, I don’t mind paying some sort of extra ‘tax’; e.g., an NHS levy over and above the NI which would enable to encourage better quality medical professionals (who still believe in the Hippocratic Oath they supposedly took) to move to the Island. My view is that as a community we must make this choice soon – but only for those who can afford it. Poor and vulnerable must be protected by the taxpayers.

Notwithstanding the fantastic contribution that various charity organisations provide, they can only do so much and cannot be reliant upon for everything. I agree with @asitis that (in this respect at least) the IOMG is falling short in doing its duty of care to all residents. Sure, the situation in the UK is arguably similar, but I am not in favour of the race to the bottom. The big uncertainty of course is whether the additional funds will be put to good use for the benefits of the IOM patients or will they be squandered on unnecessary admin/ management and other jollies for Manx Care.

Incidentally, I cannot see the justification for creating Manx Care in the first place – the efforts and resources could have been better spent on meaningful reforms and targeted improvements within the Department of Health and Social Care. Time will tell if Manx Care really can make a measurable difference. I hope their creation turns out to be a right decision. If not, then the consequences of such ‘mistake’ will last for years and might even become catastrophic/disastrous.

How much more do you suggest we pay these people? Some of the salary's up there are already eye watering!

[code99]

1 hour ago, finlo said:

How much more do you suggest we pay these people? Some of the salary's up there are already eye watering!

I understand what you are saying.

But IOM residents need quality health care. I do not wish to put a ‘price tag’ on people’s wellbeing. We are not America where some patients are forced to sell their houses to pay for the treatment of appendicitis. It is obvious that we have medical staff shortages – not enough doctors and nurses want to come here, for whatever reasons. If necessary, we must pay a (hefty) premium above what they are being remunerated in the UK; otherwise, there may not be anyone who can deal with a crisis situation like a ruptured hernia or a difficult birth, etc. Where will we be, as a society, then?

[finlo]

16 minutes ago, code99 said:

I understand what you are saying.

But IOM residents need quality health care. I do not wish to put a ‘price tag’ on people’s wellbeing. We are not America where some patients are forced to sell their houses to pay for the treatment of appendicitis. It is obvious that we have medical staff shortages – not enough doctors and nurses want to come here, for whatever reasons. If necessary, we must pay a (hefty) premium above what they are being remunerated in the UK; otherwise, there may not be anyone who can deal with a crisis situation like a ruptured hernia or a difficult birth, etc. Where will we be, as a society, then?

Given we're paying some people up to £350,000 a year to man the lifeboats up there where do we draw the line?

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, code99 said:

 

Personally, I don’t mind paying some sort of extra ‘tax’; e.g., an NHS levy over and above the NI which would enable to encourage better quality medical professionals (who still believe in the Hippocratic Oath they supposedly took) 

 

The Hippocratic Oath they “supposedly “ took.

What on earth does that mean?

This extra tax which you would be happy to pay to enable to encourage better quality professionals. How would that work?

There are plenty of third way organisations that work with the NHS who would be grateful for extra donations. Maybe you could give to them?

Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s great that you are prepared to contribute more to the NHS. But being pragmatic you can’t say I will give £ x more tax than I have to, as long as it is hypothecated to augment the salaries of better quality medical professionals 

 

[Kopek]

Market value I suppose? Maybe we back ourselves up with all the consultants when perhaps a competent exponent would do?

What makes someone a consultant? Is it 2000 successful operations or a self appointed title?

Yet another bit of information we are not entitled to see!

[James Blonde]

3 hours ago, code99 said:

 

Personally, I don’t mind paying some sort of extra ‘tax’; e.g., an NHS levy over and above the NI which would enable to encourage better quality medical professionals (who still believe in the Hippocratic Oath they supposedly took) to move to the Island. My view is that as a community we must make this choice soon – but only for those who can afford it. Poor and vulnerable must be protected by the taxpayers.

Most people I speak to seem to support the idea but it would have to be securely ring-fenced to ensure it isn't squandered on other stuff. 

The other issue is a more general one facing any organisation trying to recruit workers to the island. The cost and availability of housing, the social opportunities, the cost of living, unstable public finances (pension blackhole), poor travel connections with the UK... until we address all of these issues wholesale then it's going to remain very, very difficult to convince people that uprooting and moving to a desolate rock in the middle of the Irish Sea is a move that they want to make. 

[Kopek]

I doubt anyone considering working on the Island takes any of your parameters into account?

More likely , arrive here for a specific job or look for work, rent, see how it goes and then make a decision?

Unless married or of that proximity, their first consideration will be, how are they going to enjoy Island Life, which is new to them.

They do not consider your parameters in advance.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Kopek

[finlo]

2 minutes ago, Kopek said:

I doubt anyone considering working on the Island takes any of your parameters into account?

More likely , arrive here for a specific job or look for work, rent, see how it goes and then make a decision?

Unless married or of that proximity, their first consideration will be, how are they going to enjoy Island Life, which is new to them.

They do not consider your parameters in advance.

You think in these enlightened days people don't research where they're considering moving to?

[2thumbs]

@Kopek@James BlondeBoth your views apply i think.

Edited December 18, 2021 by 2thumbs

[Kopek]

For younger people? No. I think they will give it try.

[FSM]

1 hour ago, Kopek said:

What makes someone a consultant? Is it 2000 successful operations or a self appointed title?

Yet another bit of information we are not entitled to see!

The requirements to be a consultant  are in the public domain.

Just have a look at the relevant royal college website.

Essentially you complete a qualifying medical degree, then 2 years as a foundation doctor. Then speciality training of between six and ten years, speciality exams at entry and exit of training.

I’m “just” a GP. Five years at university. One year as a house officer (2 nowadays) then 3 years postgraduate training. Exams every year at university. Summative assesment at the end of GP training, plus MRCGP exams. Nine years training, qualified in 1998, so 23 years experience post qualification. About 62% of my life so far…

Edited December 18, 2021 by FSM