IOM DHSC & MANX CARE

[Ham_N_Eggs]

16 hours ago, CallMeCurious said:

So a year to see an ENT is 'average'.   

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/year-long-wait-to-get-ent-appointment/

And now RCH Minor Injuries Unit has issues... 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/staffing-issues-force-early-closure-of-miu/

Hopefully Nobles A&E has adequate capacity.

 

That FOI request didn't give any indication of average time to be seen so I assume that is Manx Care spin or Manx Radio misreading the 5 at a two week wait.

Having a relation on the waiting list for an "urgent" appointment for ENT the 1 year average send unlikely. I commented on this a few weeks ago so he's an update. They were originally told by their GP it was 6 weeks for an appointment letter to be sent out. 6 weeks came and went and they chased the hospital and were told it is actually "6 to 12 weeks" for an appointment letter to be sent out. 12 weeks has now gone by so they chased only for them to be told it will be "months" before an appointment letter is sent out and that they should "feel lucky" they aren't on the routine appointments list which is now at 3 years before being seen. Meanwhile two other consultants they've seen at the hospital have said they need an urgent consultation and have written directly to the ENT surgeon yet still no appointment. If they could afford to go private they could be seen next week. 

[WTF]

1 hour ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

. If they could afford to go private they could be seen next week. 

by THE SAME ENT surgeon who is too busy to see them now no doubt.

[Ham_N_Eggs]

3 minutes ago, WTF said:

by THE SAME ENT surgeon who is too busy to see them now no doubt.

This is the issue that seems to escape politicians (both local and in the UK) who think the answer to NHS backlogs is to get private healthcare more involved. Its the same Doctors and nurses in both private and public. If I was to set a rival business up in exactly the same field as the company I work for, to the detriment of the company that employs me, I don't think I'd be employed for very long. Yet this is encouraged by Govt here and in the UK.

[Gladys]

20 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

This is the issue that seems to escape politicians (both local and in the UK) who think the answer to NHS backlogs is to get private healthcare more involved. Its the same Doctors and nurses in both private and public. If I was to set a rival business up in exactly the same field as the company I work for, to the detriment of the company that employs me, I don't think I'd be employed for very long. Yet this is encouraged by Govt here and in the UK.

Kind of get the point, but the doctors are contracted to work a certain number of hours for Manx Care and they provide their services privately outside of those hours, surely? 

So, unless Manx Care extends their contracted hours, they can't do more to reduce the waiting list.  However, if there are those who can afford private treatment, does that not reduce the waiting list for NHS patients?

The other issue is if use of NHS operating theatres etc. for private work excludes those facilities from NHS patients or if they are only available for private procedures outside of the times they are available for NHS procedures. 

It is a complex issue, and not as simple as doctors just deciding to do private work in preference to NHS work. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Gladys
Typo

[Banker]

31 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

This is the issue that seems to escape politicians (both local and in the UK) who think the answer to NHS backlogs is to get private healthcare more involved. Its the same Doctors and nurses in both private and public. If I was to set a rival business up in exactly the same field as the company I work for, to the detriment of the company that employs me, I don't think I'd be employed for very long. Yet this is encouraged by Govt here and in the UK.

If we had more private healthcare opportunities like elsewhere it could possibly attract more consultants here who would also undertake NHS work to reduce waiting lists. If doctors wish to see patients privately in own time I’m not sure how that adversely impacts waiting lists,in fact it’s the opposite!

Lots of employees do private work in own time eg joiners, plumbers, mechanics,etc

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, Banker said:

If we had more private healthcare opportunities like elsewhere it could possibly attract more consultants here who would also undertake NHS work to reduce waiting lists. If doctors wish to see patients privately in own time I’m not sure how that adversely impacts waiting lists,in fact it’s the opposite!

Lots of employees do private work in own time eg joiners, plumbers, mechanics,etc

It can also help in attracting nurses, you would think.  Not sure if nurses do private work in their 'spare' time  or if they are actually working for Manx Care while doing private work but charged to the consultant or private patient. 

[Moddey Dhoo]

16 hours ago, cissolt said:

Wasn't that wild chap from manxcare involved in that IT project? Seems he's left manxcare after being found out?

It's my understanding that Mr WIld knew  Michaels and that was the 'introduction' . Current lead of transformation is Robin O'Conner who was also, I am led to believe, an Npfit alumni. His consultancy group did the JM review and then was absorbed into Gemserve (which O'Conner became a director of) and Gemserve was then awarded the lucrative transformation gig - several million quid later they were replaced by KPMG. It seems very unclear what  product has been delivered for the now rumoured 8 million + that  the Transformation project has cost.

[wrighty]

2 hours ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

That FOI request didn't give any indication of average time to be seen so I assume that is Manx Care spin or Manx Radio misreading the 5 at a two week wait.

 

Manx Radio misinterpretation, or missing the space between 5 and 2.  If you add the numbers waiting, it's clear that there are 5 "two week referrals" in the list of 1819 patients.  Two week referrals are a special class of urgent referrals that have to be seen within 2 weeks as they're a suspected cancer, and the hospital is not allowed to downgrade the referral to either urgent or routine without the express consent of the referrer.

As for the perpetual "you could see him next week if you could afford it" debate - there is no bar to what Manx Care staff do in their own time.  If they want to spend it seeing private patients that's up to them, as long as they follow the usual rules of probity, such as not artificially inflating the NHS list to boost private referrals etc.  That sort of thing should be being 'policed' by the hospital management.  The olden days of the consultant just nipping out of clinic to visit the 'golden nugget' are long gone.

I don't do any private work - haven't done so for years, and neither do any of my current orthopaedic colleagues.  So you couldn't pay one of us here to get your knee replacement done next week or whatever.  I'm not sure if that is a good or a bad thing.

[hissingsid]

I had a bad accident a few years ago and was looked after very well by one of the orthopedic surgeons, in fact the whole experience was first class stay in hospital for a while then great after care after I was discharged lots of equipment supplied on loan of course , physio etc.   can not speak highly enough of all involved.   In contrast two of my neighbours have over the past year have gone away for knee operations and when they came home they were on there own no aftercare .  Obviously if you are not in the system and do things on your own bat you should not expect it but it is something to consider if you are thinking of going this way.  I have nothing but praise for Manx Care for the treatment I get from Nobles Hospital, Ramsey Cottage Hospital and my Doctors surgery and from Aintree Hospital.

 

 

 

[CallMeCurious]

5 hours ago, Banker said:

If we had more private healthcare opportunities like elsewhere it could possibly attract more consultants here who would also undertake NHS work to reduce waiting lists. If doctors wish to see patients privately in own time I’m not sure how that adversely impacts waiting lists,in fact it’s the opposite!

Lots of employees do private work in own time eg joiners, plumbers, mechanics,etc

But if you are the only game in town then surely the priority ought to be to contract them for as much work as necessary after all they have capacity if they can see private patients without burning out. It would be interesting to know how many public vs private patients are treated in say a week and how many hours for each. 

Also how much other staff capacity, I assume ancillary staff such as nurses, anaesthetists are also in on this or does the NHS hire them out at standard rates along with the theatre? i.e. are they selling capacity that should and could be used to treat non-private patients. After all there are no other facilties on island are there? 

Also you find that employers tend to get 37-40 hours a week out of their employees and the 'foreigners' are done in the evenings, holidays and weekends.. i.e. in the employees own time and even then, if there is a need for overtime, the employer would expect attendance by an employee if asked to.

Of course none of this will ever be addressed as it's the same people who can avail themselves of the private patient option that are in charge of the provision for the rest of us.

[forestboy]

2 hours ago, hissingsid said:

I had a bad accident a few years ago and was looked after very well by one of the orthopedic surgeons, in fact the whole experience was first class stay in hospital for a while then great after care after I was discharged lots of equipment supplied on loan of course , physio etc.   can not speak highly enough of all involved.   In contrast two of my neighbours have over the past year have gone away for knee operations and when they came home they were on there own no aftercare .  Obviously if you are not in the system and do things on your own bat you should not expect it but it is something to consider if you are thinking of going this way.  I have nothing but praise for Manx Care for the treatment I get from Nobles Hospital, Ramsey Cottage Hospital and my Doctors surgery and from Aintree Hospital.

 

I went away over ten years ago to a Nuffield hospital for a hip resurfacing.    Too long a waiting time here and pain became excruciating. Including travel expenses over £12k. Fortunately I was able to recuperate at daughter’s nearby in Leamington Spa before flying home. 
On return had excellent support from Nobles in the form of aids. 
They still provide annual after care in the form of X-rays and blood tests.  Can’t be faulted.  

  

 

 

 

[2112]

3 hours ago, hissingsid said:

I had a bad accident a few years ago and was looked after very well by one of the orthopedic surgeons, in fact the whole experience was first class stay in hospital for a while then great after care after I was discharged lots of equipment supplied on loan of course , physio etc.   can not speak highly enough of all involved.   In contrast two of my neighbours have over the past year have gone away for knee operations and when they came home they were on there own no aftercare .  Obviously if you are not in the system and do things on your own bat you should not expect it but it is something to consider if you are thinking of going this way.  I have nothing but praise for Manx Care for the treatment I get from Nobles Hospital, Ramsey Cottage Hospital and my Doctors surgery and from Aintree Hospital.

 

 

 

I’ve been across to Aintree Hospital, seeing consultants. Very good treatment and excellent service from patient transfers. On the whole I’ve been quite lucky with Manx Care, but I had to complain to get the initial help otherwise I would have been continually passed from Nobles Consultants to Consultant without a definitive diagnosis. I went to Aintree and they diagnosed a condition which Nobles hadn’t picked up upon. They flagged it to my GP who in turn referred to Nobles. 

[Ringy Rose]

12 hours ago, Moddey Dhoo said:

Current lead of transformation is Robin O'Conner who was also, I am led to believe, an Npfit alumni. His consultancy group did the JM review and then was absorbed into Gemserve (which O'Conner became a director of) and Gemserve was then awarded the lucrative transformation gig - several million quid later they were replaced by KPMG

Wouldn’t surprise me, the whole JM report was clearly just about siphoning taxpayer cash into consultants’ pockets. Same way Beamans- staffed by ex-Manx CS bigwigs including a former CEO of DHSC in David Killip- keep mysteriously getting big fat consultancy contracts too.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Ringy Rose

[360 View]

20 hours ago, Moddey Dhoo said:

It's my understanding that Mr WIld knew  Michaels and that was the 'introduction' . Current lead of transformation is Robin O'Conner who was also, I am led to believe, an Npfit alumni. His consultancy group did the JM review and then was absorbed into Gemserve (which O'Conner became a director of) and Gemserve was then awarded the lucrative transformation gig - several million quid later they were replaced by KPMG. It seems very unclear what  product has been delivered for the now rumoured 8 million + that  the Transformation project has cost.

And no doubt more dosh will be rolling into the Wild coffers as he is, according to himself, as co-founder and chairman of his company Ethos, an “information governance expert “ now he has left Manx Care.

https://www.ethos.co.im/news/article/meet-the-team-richardwild/ 

And look who else is part of that company Karen Malone  https://www.ethos.co.im/our-team/profile/karen-malone/

No doubt Manx Care will now be wowed by their claims and engage the company on lucrative contracts taking more public money 

[Roxanne]

I wonder what would happen if we got rid of the whole damn lot of them along with their 'mission statements' and the rest of the buggery bollocks invented to put more people at the top.

I trained as a nurse many years ago and, around 1973/4/5 all these changes were just stating to come in where instead of a staff sister, (number 7), matron and a hospital manager overseeing everything, more and more policies were being introduced that required more and more people at the top to oversee them.

As nurses on the wards, the first indication of this change was that, day to day, less time was allocated to the patients and more time was allocated to filling out forms. Every single one of us thought it was a bad move and most of us (including me) left, never to return because it took us away from the very job that we signed up to. There was a lot of sadness and a lot of descent at that time and the NHS lost a lot of extremely good and contentious nurses.

No one listened, it was like everyone at the top was on a mission to destroy the fundamentals of care, while at same time, writing more and more policies about that very thing and those policies and targets required more and more management to oversee them with us at the bottom spending or time filling in forms. I loved being a nurse. I felt it was my calling and I was really sad to leave but I couldn't carry on seeing patients becoming numbers rather than human beings.

Then I became a teacher and I loved that too and then Mission Statements and the National Curriculum came in and the whole thing went the same way as nursing, with a mass exodus of all the best teachers who had already been doing an excellent job that covered the national curriculum anyway without needing to fill in loads of boxes every night.

Anyway, Monday morning musings. I seem to have written a blog. I don't care.

But still - if, overnight, every single one of them disappeared - would it really be worse? 

I don't think so.