Jarndyce Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Roxanne said: We know it wasn't AC. We know I wasn't RC. We know it wasn't the AG. So who? 13 minutes ago, cissolt said: Alf spoke to the AG and JPW and a mystery DHSS officer approved it.... without ministerial approval at dept level apparently DHSC CEO? How many “mystery DHSC officers” could, appropriately or not, be high enough up to give that kind of approval? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: How many “mystery DHSC officers” could, appropriately or not, be high enough up to give that kind of approval? I have not a scoobie. Ric Railway? He seems to be the fall guy for everything these days. And he certainly holds a very elevated position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Gay'n Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 20 minutes ago, Roxanne said: Why on earth didn't they just say who it was who took responsibility for giving the appeal the go ahead. This has now been going on for weeks. Surely they know that by fudging it, speculation is only going to build? We know it wasn't AC. We know I wasn't RC. We know it wasn't the AG. So who? It doesn't really matter. The Chief Minister expressing 'an opinion' in an email would be taken across the whole public sector as an instruction/green light - so no matter how careful he is with his version of the truth, he is on the hook. 4 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 And as with Ashie's rebuttals we will see hell freeze over before his reforms. Which during global warming will be an even longer time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moddey Dhoo Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 10 hours ago, Nellie said: Pathetic effort from Cannan. We all know that this whole episode was orchestrated by Magson, aided and abetted by Greenhow, Malone and Conie, with the political acquiescence of Quayle and Ashford. Yet, there was not a single mention of their involvement, either by name, role or even by inference. There is no intention that anyone will be held truly accountable or responsible for anything. More reviews are just a mechanism to kick it into the long grass, and hope that everyone forgets. ANGELA MURRAY 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 31 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said: It doesn't really matter. The Chief Minister expressing 'an opinion' in an email would be taken across the whole public sector as an instruction/green light - so no matter how careful he is with his version of the truth, he is on the hook. Well quite, but it's also worth pointing to the manipulation going on here. Despite the time the DHSC had to appeal, it wasn't sent to CoMin for advice till it was too late for them to discuss it, so forcing a decision to be made without input from others. It's not even clear that the Minister was involved in this at all, even if he was, he was only in post for a couple of days and couldn't be expected to be able to make a genuine judgement as he didn't have the background knowledge. There's a big irony here in that the main reason that Callister fell out with his Departmental Members over was the second appeal, which they thought shouldn't have happened. And which it now appears he had little knowledge of and no control over. If anyone was responsible it was Cannan. Who then sacked him. Who it was at DHSC who delayed getting approval or not, we don't know. We don't know if they were operating along with AG's Office people in these actions (though there have been hints). And we don't know if this person was the one who claims Callister said something to them (which Callister denies) and then went round telling all the DMs about it. But there certainly seems to have been a lot of manipulation going on and that's not a healthy way to run things. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747-400 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Roxanne said: Why on earth didn't they just say who it was who took responsibility for giving the appeal the go ahead. This has now been going on for weeks. Surely they know that by fudging it, speculation is only going to build? We know it wasn't AC. We know I wasn't RC. We know it wasn't the AG. So who? JPW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 It seems to be just speculation, bit of pass the parcel and musical chairs or more realistically moving deck chairs on the Titanic. I doubt it was one person or even a formal decision. No one seems to know or seems inclined to indicate which department made this decision. One big mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Roxanne said: Why on earth didn't they just say who it was who took responsibility for giving the appeal the go ahead. This has now been going on for weeks. Surely they know that by fudging it, speculation is only going to build? We know it wasn't AC. We know I wasn't RC. We know it wasn't the AG. So who? It'll probably be the same mystery civil servant Rob Callister said should "consider their position". We never found out what the context of that comment was. It wouldn't surprise me if this was what it was over. Still a stupid thing to say but it would have been more understandable as to why he was upset about it. Context, as they say, is everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, hissingsid said: It seems to be just speculation, bit of pass the parcel and musical chairs or more realistically moving deck chairs on the Titanic. I doubt it was one person or even a formal decision. No one seems to know or seems inclined to indicate which department made this decision. One big mystery. And that's the way they'll want to keep it until it all blows over and the lump in the rug levels off a bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Well quite, but it's also worth pointing to the manipulation going on here. Despite the time the DHSC had to appeal, it wasn't sent to CoMin for advice till it was too late for them to discuss it, so forcing a decision to be made without input from others. It's not even clear that the Minister was involved in this at all, even if he was, he was only in post for a couple of days and couldn't be expected to be able to make a genuine judgement as he didn't have the background knowledge. There's a big irony here in that the main reason that Callister fell out with his Departmental Members over was the second appeal, which they thought shouldn't have happened. And which it now appears he had little knowledge of and no control over. If anyone was responsible it was Cannan. Who then sacked him. Who it was at DHSC who delayed getting approval or not, we don't know. We don't know if they were operating along with AG's Office people in these actions (though there have been hints). And we don't know if this person was the one who claims Callister said something to them (which Callister denies) and then went round telling all the DMs about it. But there certainly seems to have been a lot of manipulation going on and that's not a healthy way to run things. Surely Mr Callister should have got up to speed with what was going on, there must be enough people to give him chapter and verse of what it was about. It really is a poor show for him not to take charge of the situation. He has the AG's , the CM, Comin, his Departmental Members, Lawrie Hooper, His acting CEO, the civil servants in the Department, all, who could have give him advice and help, If he chose to hide and not make a decision, Mr Cannan was right to sack him, because as I see it, he was really is the only one who could have pulled the appeal at any time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, Holte End said: Surely Mr Callister should have got up to speed with what was going on, there must be enough people to give him chapter and verse of what it was about. It really is a poor show for him not to take charge of the situation. He has the AG's , the CM, Comin, his Departmental Members, Lawrie Hooper, His acting CEO, the civil servants in the Department, all, who could have give him advice and help, If he chose to hide and not make a decision, Mr Cannan was right to sack him, because as I see it, he was really is the only one who could have pulled the appeal at any time. It all points to what happens everywhere else though. The elected kept in the dark or at best given half a story. One could argue that it's their job to know but if they're being misled or not told at all then the finger needs to start pointing elsewhere. Alf Cannan has already made reference to this in October 2021 - civil servants can't be relied upon to tell their departmental elected representatives the truth. The promised culture change isn't changing fast enough Alf and given your statement in Tynwald, you're exacerbating the situation. The electorate elected and are paying you to do better. Get a grip. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 If he wants to come out of this with any credibility now is the time to start kicking peoples asses and sacking people with loss of pension, show that the time of unacountability has ended. And do not follow that toe rag Wints argument about this all goes back twenty years reeling of long departed heads of departments. This is NOW draw the line and say from now you go out of line or gross misconduct you are out on your ass, you fucked up own it. Bye bye cushy job/pension. That is what the Manx public want and deserve. Not this watered down shite and drivel he is spouting, otherwise they will really think they are/will be untouchable. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moddey Dhoo Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/17/isle-of-man-medical-director-dr-rosalind-ranson-faced-disgraceful-bullying-tribunal-finds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.