IOM DHSC & MANX CARE

[Two-lane]

7 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

(The top Dr in Ramsey was thanked by Dr Ranson in her most recent press statement)

In case someone does not realise, that is Dr Chan and not Mr Allinson.

[Banker]

13 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

The whole nub of the Ranson-Magson case was that Magson insisted we follow the U.K. Govt's line and NOT close the borders when we could/should have done. She was a U.K. civil servant and that's all she knew. There was also an element of professional ass covering. She had no knowledge of the Island and the possibility that we could be proactive and ahead of the U.K. She wasn't even here throughout the whole pandemic period. With proper testing at our ports and quarantine for returners, we could've got everyone home too. This would've been the sensible policy, and I think it's what Ranson was recommending we do. But it wasn't what the U.K. was doing and that's where the conflict started.

So you would have left 100s of students stuck in Uk with no family , no accommodation etc plus many others returning from holidays, work etc . It was the correct decision to keep borders open to allow residents to return & most civilized countries did the same 

[Shake me up Judy]

7 minutes ago, Banker said:

So you would have left 100s of students stuck in Uk with no family , no accommodation etc plus many others returning from holidays, work etc . It was the correct decision to keep borders open to allow residents to return & most civilized countries did the same 

Read my post again.

[Gladys]

The take away is that this kind of behaviour is endemic throughout the NHS, here and in the UK. But, this has provided the BMA with a copper bottom example to ram that home here and there.  

That is not to diminish the importance for the IOM.  As he implied, this is a real opportunity to deal with it and 'fix' the cultural issues and be (and be seen to be) ready and willing to do so.  Rather than resist, we should be asking "where do we sign up?".

Perhaps I am being simplistic, but is it naive to think that the best people to run health care are those with medical qualifications, heavily reliant, of course, on senior administrators to do the grunty management bureaucracy? In other words, should a medical decision from a medical professional ever be overruled by a non-medical executive?

You see it quite frequently that the top people of any organisation who do not actually understand the fundamental 'business' of the organisation make the wrong decisions.

The other take away is this ain't going away with platitudes and weasly words.

 

[Two-lane]

5 minutes ago, Gladys said:

The take away is that this kind of behaviour is endemic throughout the NHS, here and in the UK.

My assumption had been that this was endemic throughout all IoM gov departments - the common factor being an out-of-control Civil Service and weak MHKs.

But if this is endemic throughout the NHS, what is the common factor that allowed this to happen?

[Gladys]

3 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

1. My assumption had been that this was endemic throughout all IoM gov departments - the common factor being an out-of-control Civil Service and weak MHKs.

2. But if this is endemic throughout the NHS, what is the common factor that allowed this to happen?

1. You may be right.

2. Do not know, but the shift from a medic based management structure to an admin based management structure may have something to do with it.  Matron's word was law and consultants' rounds were a reverential procession through the ward.  I am not saying that approach was without other issues,  but it certainly focused on the medicine, even if not the individual patient.  The cry 20 or 30 years ago was that the 'bean counters' were running hospitals, rather than the doctors.  Medics seem to be viewed as nothing more than drones, there to deliver not be involved in strategy. No different to workers in a factory. 

[Shake me up Judy]

It was the new managerial culture of the '80s that began to turn the CS/PS into a highly paid elite of self-serving careerists with a narrow range of skills and little experience of the real world. Gone was the ethos of civic responsibility and duty, and gone was the 'service' to the public.

[cissolt]

54 minutes ago, Banker said:

So you would have left 100s of students stuck in Uk with no family , no accommodation etc plus many others returning from holidays, work etc . It was the correct decision to keep borders open to allow residents to return & most civilized countries did the same 

The suggestion was testing and signage for symptoms on arrival at the minimum, this was asked for in February.

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/government-advised-to-close-borders-11-days-earlier-than-it-did/

[Two-lane]

6 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Do not know, but the shift from a medic based management structure to an admin based management structure may have something to do with it. 

Ok, from the press conference video:

"well I what I think has been clear from my visit is a disconnect between who runs the Health Service and what is actually going on on the shop floor you know it's a system that doesn't really
want to know what's wrong with it it only wants to know what's what's right and therefore you are hearing the wrong
messages "

So things may be worse here because some of the management was not even here, and combined with a Civil Service attitude.

As for the "only wants to know what's right" comment, in the video of the last Manx Care board meeting, Cope spent quite a few minutes reading out a letter from someone who had benefited from a cataract operation. Yes, that is a type of operation that makes an astounding difference, but that part of the video reminded me of an American evangelical meeting - the lame can walk and the blind can see. I need not say that Cope did not read out any letters from unsatisfied customers.

[Banker]

14 minutes ago, cissolt said:

The suggestion was testing and signage for symptoms on arrival at the minimum, this was asked for in February.

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/government-advised-to-close-borders-11-days-earlier-than-it-did/

The heading & main part of story say’s government should have closed borders earlier 

[cissolt]

8 minutes ago, Banker said:

The heading & main part of story say’s government should have closed borders earlier 

Correct. 

Her medical opinion was overruled by greenhow, DJ Dan and the quiz master.  If you have a medical emergency do you see the advice from three unqualified civil servants or a team of medical experts?

[Gladys]

5 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

Ok, from the press conference video:

"well I what I think has been clear from my visit is a disconnect between who runs the Health Service and what is actually going on on the shop floor you know it's a system that doesn't really
want to know what's wrong with it it only wants to know what's what's right and therefore you are hearing the wrong
messages "

So things may be worse here because some of the management was not even here, and combined with a Civil Service attitude.

As for the "only wants to know what's right" comment, in the video of the last Manx Care board meeting, Cope spent quite a few minutes reading out a letter from someone who had benefited from a cataract operation. Yes, that is a type of operation that makes an astounding difference, but that part of the video reminded me of an American evangelical meeting - the lame can walk and the blind can see. I need not say that Cope did not read out any letters from unsatisfied customers.

Kind of confirms my point really.  The effectiveness of health delivery isn't really measured by who was happy, (everyone who has a procedure that solves the problem will be happy), but how many preventable issues have been prevented, the speed with which treatment is actually delivered, how many interventions have been at the right time and of the right treatment,  and so on. 

[Gladys]

I would just add, let's hope the BMA do not black line job adverts for medical jobs in the IOM. 

[wrighty]

7 minutes ago, Gladys said:

I would just add, let's hope the BMA do not black line job adverts for medical jobs in the IOM. 

They used to do that if jobs were advertised that were either too onerous - 24/7 availability for example - or didn’t have enough supporting activity time. Basically if the contract or job plan was not what the BMA regarded as appropriate. 

[Gladys]

Just now, wrighty said:

They used to do that if jobs were advertised that were either too onerous - 24/7 availability for example - or didn’t have enough supporting activity time. Basically if the contract or job plan was not what the BMA regarded as appropriate. 

Do they still do it and what is the exact criteria?  It was a question raised by PM in the interview which made you think the message is "we advertise it, but don't recommend it".