IOM DHSC & MANX CARE

[joebean]

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/bma-calls-for-uk-led-inquiry-into-handling-of-dr-ranson-case/

Unfortunately, this is probably the only way the truth might be exposed and any real change come as a result. Tynwald has always been part of the problem, with its general silence on the affair; acceptance of limited and flawed assurances and it’s connivance. It simply cannot be trusted to set up an independent investigation, scope it correctly or to accept any conclusions a thorough investigation might bring. It is corrupted through a mixture of self-interest, cowardice and incompetence. Current and past Ministers who could have made a difference have chosen not to. Our Governance has been proven to be weak and failing and far from transparent and our constitutional independence has been used to cover wrong-doing, poor behaviour and malpractice. It’s time for the UK Government to step in and investigate this mess. Shame on those that brought us to this. 

[2112]

The NPM lead story today is the BMA is calling for the independent inquiry into the Rosalind Ranson case, to be handled by the UK. I think that may be a good outcome, out of any political interference. 

[2112]

2 minutes ago, joebean said:

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/bma-calls-for-uk-led-inquiry-into-handling-of-dr-ranson-case/

Unfortunately, this is probably the only way the truth might be exposed and any real change come as a result. Tynwald has always been part of the problem, with its general silence on the affair; acceptance of limited and flawed assurances and it’s connivance. It simply cannot be trusted to set up an independent investigation, scope it correctly or to accept any conclusions a thorough investigation might bring. It is corrupted through a mixture of self-interest, cowardice and incompetence. Current and past Ministers who could have made a difference have chosen not to. Our Governance has been proven to be weak and failing and far from transparent and our constitutional independence has been used to cover wrong-doing, poor behaviour and malpractice. It’s time for the UK Government to step in and investigate this mess. Shame on those that brought us to this. 

It’s all areas which are rotten not just the DHSC. It’s taken one tribunal to open things up and shake the establishment. 

[Shake me up Judy]

16 minutes ago, 2112 said:

The NPM lead story today is the BMA is calling for the independent inquiry into the Rosalind Ranson case, to be handled by the UK. I think that may be a good outcome, out of any political interference. 

The Westminster establishment already know what goes on here, and that occasionally they have to send a big chief up country to control the natives. It's been this way for long generations. It suits the governing class and London's financial institutions to have cosy little plutocracies and liberal regimes like the IOM and the Channel Islands, as long as they're discrete and behave themselves.   

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said:

The Westminster establishment already know what goes on here, and that occasionally they have to send a big chief up country to control the natives. It's been this way for long generations. It suits the governing class and London's financial institutions to have cosy little plutocracies and liberal regimes like the IOM and the Channel Islands, as long as they're discrete and behave themselves.   

I think you’re missing the elephant in the room. 

What happened to Ranson was inexcusable, but it, and worse, goes on throughout public bodies throughout the UK at a much greater scale than here, every day.

Of course, because the tribunals, and enquiries, aren’t as well publicised in local communities, most are never seen or heard about in UK, unless it’s nationally significant.

The only reason for HMG to try and focus in here would be if they were trying to deflect and I don’t think that would happen. Anything in UK that was big enough wouldn’t be deflected by an exposure and enquiry here.

[Kopek]

The proposal is for a retired Judge or KC to head the inquiry. Are we suggesting that such a person could be swayed by the Manx establishment???

[2112]

1 hour ago, Kopek said:

The proposal is for a retired Judge or KC to head the inquiry. Are we suggesting that such a person could be swayed by the Manx establishment???

Maybe or maybe not. I doubt it, but I think the intention is if it’s conducted within the UK, the findings could be more easily used to promote meaningful change, as opposed to IOM politico waffle, spin and can kicking. I think the BMA would like for swift action to follow, with the UK taking control. 

[joebean]

1 hour ago, Kopek said:

The proposal is for a retired Judge or KC to head the inquiry. Are we suggesting that such a person could be swayed by the Manx establishment???

No, but Tynwald setting the scope and remit would not be good. 

[John Wright]

14 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Maybe or maybe not. I doubt it, but I think the intention is if it’s conducted within the UK, the findings could be more easily used to promote meaningful change, as opposed to IOM politico waffle, spin and can kicking. I think the BMA would like for swift action to follow, with the UK taking control. 

You need to contrast

1. British Medical Association calls for a UK public inquiry into Dr Ranson affair

2. The British Medical Association is calling for a UK-led public inquiry into the way in which the Isle of Man’s Government and Health Service handled the case of Rosalind Ranson.

 

These are two very different things

Where

1.  is IoM Newspapers false and misleading reportage click bait, and, 

2. is what the BMA is actually asking for.

[Cassie2]

On 5/28/2023 at 1:19 PM, joebean said:

No, but Tynwald setting the scope and remit would not be good. 

"....would not be good"?

That is precisely what they have just slimily done. 

They are continuing to try their time-honoured technique of pulling the wool over everyone's eyes yet again.

It's no wonder the BMA, the Ransons and the thinking public are beyond angry and disgusted with them.

The shockingly serial, institutionally incompetent and slimy way that things are done in the island's ruling cohorts including its Civil Service is slowly reaching the end of its far too long life. The moronic, self-regarding, self-interested politicians and civil servants in charge just haven't wakened up yet to the realities of 2023.........

The people of the island owe a very big debt to Dr Ranson for blowing the lid off this and making the politicians' and civil servants' determination for yet another wriggling out and cover-up ultimately a lot harder. 

People get who they vote for. Isle of Man voters need to remember this when they vote in future because if a desire for real change looked likely then some really good people would be less reluctant to stand

And then the Isle of Man could stop being so badly broken.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Cassie2

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Cassie2 said:

"....would not be good"?

That is precisely what they have just slimily done. 

They are continuing to try their time-honoured technique of pulling the wool over everyone's eyes yet again.

It's no wonder the BMA, the Ransons and the thinking public are beyond angry and disgusted with them.

The shockingly serial, institutionally incompetent and slimy way that things are done in the island's ruling cohorts including its Civil Service is slowly reaching the end of its far too long life. The moronic, self-regarding, self-interested politicians and civil servants in charge just haven't wakened up yet to the realities of 2023.........

The people of the island owe a very big debt to Dr Ranson for blowing the lid off this and making the politicians' and civil servants' determination for yet another wriggling out and cover-up ultimately a lot harder. 

People get who they vote for. Isle of Man voters need to remember this when they vote in future because if a desire for real change looked likely then some really good people would be less reluctant to stand

And then the Isle of Man could stop being so badly broken.

Doesn’t the same apply to the UK and it’s public service? If what you say is true they’re only aping their Westminster lords & masters.

The whole civil service ethos now is to record, and deny, ass cover and deflect, and never admit a responsibility or mistake, even when you’re caught with your pants down and red handed 

[Non-Believer]

1 minute ago, John Wright said:

Doesn’t the same apply to the UK and it’s public service?

We are a much smaller jurisdiction though, John, it should be much easier to police, impose and maintain standards.

The UK also has an official political opposition whose job is to scrutinise the actions and conduct of the Govt of the day (although they would have had their work cut out with Johnson). We have no such scrutiny, despite the best "efforts" of Lisvane to remove financially-based bias from our MHKs.

Only 4 (to the best of my knowledge) have put their heads above the parapet, or offered any comment resembling it in this matter, Christian, Glover, Wannenburgh and Edge, the rest have remained deafeningly silent, that to my mind equates to a drawing together of the chairs in the hope that this usual policy will work on this occasion too.

The system is flawed and has been exposed in a big way, I don't think this is going to go away anytime soon regardless of the desperate "ignore it" stance.

We should aspire to a lot better than we have been shown to be.

[hampsterkahn]

What has made the Dr Ranson case so remarkable is not the  deplorable way she was treated - many would  say that is far from unusual,  what made it so significant was that   she had the backing of the BMA and thereby recourse to skilled powerful legal representation,  and that she won.

Even whilst the arrogance and pomposity of the Gov.was being  ruthlessly exposed ( their CEO called a liar, their chief medical officers evidence was regarded as of  such little value that both  sides decided to ignore it, the credibility of the “minister” openly and bluntly challenged) they continued to  plough on.

At no point did they seem to hesitate to reflect, “ Where is this going? How is it likely to end?”

In effect a delusional state fed  by our money 

Even now after all this,  the latest “minister” vainly tries to question what the the chairman of the  BMA has said.

 

 

 

[John Wright]

17 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

We are a much smaller jurisdiction though, John, it should be much easier to police, impose and maintain standards.

The UK also has an official political opposition whose job is to scrutinise the actions and conduct of the Govt of the day (although they would have had their work cut out with Johnson). We have no such scrutiny, despite the best "efforts" of Lisvane to remove financially-based bias from our MHKs.

Only 4 (to the best of my knowledge) have put their heads above the parapet, or offered any comment resembling it in this matter, Christian, Glover, Wannenburgh and Edge, the rest have remained deafeningly silent, that to my mind equates to a drawing together of the chairs in the hope that this usual policy will work on this occasion too.

The system is flawed and has been exposed in a big way, I don't think this is going to go away anytime soon regardless of the desperate "ignore it" stance.

We should aspire to a lot better than we have been shown to be.

Of course we should aspire to be, and be, a lot better.

My post is in the context of calls for the UK to intervene, as if they were running some better, less incompetent, less corrupt, system. I’m pointing out they don’t and they aren’t.

As for an opposition, I agree, to an extent. But the malaise and corruption in the UK, with politicians, especially Tories, for sale to the highest bidder and favouring their powerful media, privately educated and business chums, well, again, the system there is probably more corrupt and better at getting away with things than our lot.

Im not suggesting or asking for it to go away. And Lisvane was and is a joke.

Things like this just wouldn’t hit the front pages in UK. And it is our size, and relative transparency,  because of the difficulty of actually burying or sweeping under the carpet, there are so many with grievances that it can’t be covered up as easily here, that gives me hope for the future.

For all that it’s terrible, Ranson has actually shown the Manx system can, and does work. Just hope the next steps in both enquiries also work.

There are others waiting in the wings, with their horror stories of incompetency and corruption. 

I suspect the big thing is not to expect instant solutions to long term endemic problems. But to do it properly and thoroughly.

[Cassie2]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Doesn’t the same apply to the UK and it’s public service? If what you say is true they’re only aping their Westminster lords & masters.

The whole civil service ethos now is to record, and deny, ass cover and deflect, and never admit a responsibility or mistake, even when you’re caught with your pants down and red handed 

Your first paragraph is not the real point. You agree when you so rightly said earlier: ''Of course we should aspire to be, and be, a lot better." Quite.

The island is not the UK and the UK should not be any sort of benchmark for such things. The island is clearly run appallingly - and far too often by the few - for themselves and their chosen few. Just as it has been for centuries past. And the consequences are now hundreds of millions wasted, no value for the taxpayer's money and key essential services broken. 

I could not agree more with every word of your perfectly crafted second paragraph. But there needs to be "Politicians and" added before "civil service ethos". It is easy to think of more than one current Minister and an ex Minister to whom that applies. Big-time. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Cassie2