asitis Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 On an unconnected but sort of a bit connected topic, I am reading the reports of the Lucy Letby horrors. I am struck by the omnipotence of bureaucracy and administrators, who exhibit nothing but hubris when confronted by front line professional people ! ( hopefully in this case some will come unstuck ). There are connected behavioural tangents throughout Government and Civil Service in every sphere of influence, where ego and hubris replace common sense and an ability to accept the views of others. Compliant politicians, and a behemoth of a CS with people who fit these personality traits in the top positions is a recipe for disaster. Ranson is a case in point. Hopefully this may be a watershed exposing the behaviour of people totally unsuited to positions of power. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, asitis said: On an unconnected but sort of a bit connected topic, I am reading the reports of the Lucy Letby horrors. I am struck by the omnipotence of bureaucracy and administrators, who exhibit nothing but hubris when confronted by front line professional people ! ( hopefully in this case some will come unstuck ). There are connected behavioural tangents throughout Government and Civil Service in every sphere of influence, where ego and hubris replace common sense and an ability to accept the views of others. Compliant politicians, and a behemoth of a CS with people who fit these personality traits in the top positions is a recipe for disaster. Ranson is a case in point. Hopefully this may be a watershed exposing the behaviour of people totally unsuited to positions of power. Thought very much the same when the verdicts were announced. So many parallels with Ranson that it makes you wonder if there really is such a thing as a "professional manager" and if they should really be the senior executive. By that I mean someone who has all the managerial qualifications (management and administrative theory, finance etc) but with absolutely no professional qualification or experience in the very purpose of the organisation they are heading up. You certainly need those with that kind of expertise, but supporting a senior exec who has more than a fleeting grasp of the underlying function and purpose in practice. I am sure that when organisations were headed with someone eminently qualified in the underlying purpose, there were errors and professional prejudice clouding judgement, but there has to be a balance between the two to be truly effective. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 57 minutes ago, asitis said: Hopefully this may be a watershed exposing the behaviour of people totally unsuited to positions of power. Hopefully, yes: sadly, I feel that your hope may fade away as nothing much changes at all. This kind of treatment of whistleblowers happens all over - lip service is given to improvements (“lessons will be learned” has never sounded so hollow) and nothing actually happens. Just ask Mr Duffy…oh, that’s right, you can’t. He’s gone - and taken himself off the medical register, I believe. So - what to do about the hubris and ego displayed by our own DHSC/MC management class? People used to complain about Mrs Scott, when she was Hospital Manager - she had her faults, I’m sure, but as a former nurse she understood how healthcare is supposed to work. Now that period seems like a Golden Age - now we have a CEO, a COO, deputies, heads, endless layers of complex management, duplicated between DHSC and MC - and no real support or real money for frontline staff. Plenty of backslapping and self-congratulatory emails from the top layer, but no real change for the better. Short of ripping it all up and reinstalling a management model from 25 years ago, I don’t know what the answer might be…I suppose a genuinely interested and concerned Tynwald might be a start, along with a minister with enough integrity and common sense to distinguish right from wrong. Oh, hang on - our shiny new system puts the minister at “arms length” from the sharp end.. Apologies, this post is too long. Rant over. 3 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: Hopefully, yes: sadly, I feel that your hope may fade away as nothing much changes at all. This kind of treatment of whistleblowers happens all over - lip service is given to improvements (“lessons will be learned” has never sounded so hollow) and nothing actually happens. Just ask Mr Duffy…oh, that’s right, you can’t. He’s gone - and taken himself off the medical register, I believe. So - what to do about the hubris and ego displayed by our own DHSC/MC management class? People used to complain about Mrs Scott, when she was Hospital Manager - she had her faults, I’m sure, but as a former nurse she understood how healthcare is supposed to work. Now that period seems like a Golden Age - now we have a CEO, a COO, deputies, heads, endless layers of complex management, duplicated between DHSC and MC - and no real support or real money for frontline staff. Plenty of backslapping and self-congratulatory emails from the top layer, but no real change for the better. Short of ripping it all up and reinstalling a management model from 25 years ago, I don’t know what the answer might be…I suppose a genuinely interested and concerned Tynwald might be a start, along with a minister with enough integrity and common sense to distinguish right from wrong. Oh, hang on - our shiny new system puts the minister at “arms length” from the sharp end.. Apologies, this post is too long. Rant over. Putting it simply, the senior exec needs to be able to protect the purpose not the organisation. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 There'll be no watershed moment. You can forget that. After Shipman and Allitt there were reports, and change was promised, but things just got worse, and it'll be the same after this case. I'd stake my pension on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Gladys said: Putting it simply, the senior exec needs to be able to protect the purpose not the organisation It’s not enough to be “able” to protect the purpose - the senior exec needs to recognise this over-riding purpose and actually be willing to do something about it. I’m sure Ms Cope has the necessary powers to “protect the purpose” - but, when push comes to shove, is that what would happen? eta: as for the DHSC’s attempts to sideline and silence the HSCC - well, there you have it, a blatant attempt to silence a critical voice, speaking up for the benefit of the patients. Hubris, anyone - plenty to go round? Edited August 20, 2023 by Jarndyce eta 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/19/lucy-letby-police-urged-to-investigate-hospital-bosses-for-corporate-manslaughter Protecting reputation rather than patient safety. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Look at what happened here in the Ranson case. It's only a few weeks ago that the DHSC, CoMin, and that fool Hooper were still fighting a battle they'd already lost. Even now, they're still trying to gag Moulton with lawyers, and we're still paying for it all. No watershed and no lessons learned. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Not as important at least not in health terms, but exactly the situation mirrored at the airport ! Hubris abounds ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 I too have seen similarities between the two cases, and other cases. Professionals not being listened to and managers protecting themselves and their reputation over the safety of others. Bring back matron. And I’m not even joking. These situations are WAY out of control. 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Jarndyce said: Hopefully, yes: sadly, I feel that your hope may fade away as nothing much changes at all. This kind of treatment of whistleblowers happens all over - lip service is given to improvements (“lessons will be learned” has never sounded so hollow) and nothing actually happens. Just ask Mr Duffy…oh, that’s right, you can’t. He’s gone - and taken himself off the medical register, I believe. So - what to do about the hubris and ego displayed by our own DHSC/MC management class? People used to complain about Mrs Scott, when she was Hospital Manager - she had her faults, I’m sure, but as a former nurse she understood how healthcare is supposed to work. Now that period seems like a Golden Age - now we have a CEO, a COO, deputies, heads, endless layers of complex management, duplicated between DHSC and MC - and no real support or real money for frontline staff. Plenty of backslapping and self-congratulatory emails from the top layer, but no real change for the better. Short of ripping it all up and reinstalling a management model from 25 years ago, I don’t know what the answer might be…I suppose a genuinely interested and concerned Tynwald might be a start, along with a minister with enough integrity and common sense to distinguish right from wrong. Oh, hang on - our shiny new system puts the minister at “arms length” from the sharp end.. Apologies, this post is too long. Rant over. Don’t ever aplogise for expertise and experience. That was a mighty fine post. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Jarndyce said: a minister with enough integrity and common sense to distinguish right from wrong. Oh, hang on - our shiny new system puts A step too far, that absolute fool Hooper and that waste of oxygen Ashford ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, asitis said: 4 hours ago, Jarndyce said: a minister with enough integrity and common sense to distinguish right from wrong. A step too far, that absolute fool Hooper and that waste of oxygen Ashford ! It should be a minimum requirement - but you’re right: it’s probably a step too far to expect this… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwebs Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 4 hours ago, asitis said: Not as important at least not in health terms, but exactly the situation mirrored at the airport ! Hubris abounds ! What are the Seven Deadly Sins, and how do they apply to civil servants and the politicians whom they control? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins Lust - forms of unbridled desire, such as for money, or power Gluttony - the overindulgence and overconsumption of anything to the point of waste Greed - an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs Sloth - became indifferent to their duties and obligations Wrath - act of anger becomes the sin of wrath when it is directed against an innocent person Envy - a sad or resentful covetousness towards the traits or possessions of someone else Pride - Hubris. The "pride that blinds" causes foolish actions against common sense. In political analysis, "hubris" is often used to describe how leaders with great power over many years become more and more irrationally self-confident and contemptuous of advice, leading them to act impulsively Is this a full house? What can be done? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, philwebs said: What are the Seven Deadly Sins, and how do they apply to civil servants and the politicians whom they control? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins Lust - forms of unbridled desire, such as for money, or power Gluttony - the overindulgence and overconsumption of anything to the point of waste Greed - an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs Sloth - became indifferent to their duties and obligations Wrath - act of anger becomes the sin of wrath when it is directed against an innocent person Envy - a sad or resentful covetousness towards the traits or possessions of someone else Pride - Hubris. The "pride that blinds" causes foolish actions against common sense. In political analysis, "hubris" is often used to describe how leaders with great power over many years become more and more irrationally self-confident and contemptuous of advice, leading them to act impulsively Is this a full house? What can be done? Compare them against the 7 Nolan Priniciples: Selflessness Integrity Objectivity Accountability Openness Honesty Leadership 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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