Boo Gay'n Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 It will be interesting (to say the least) to read the Darzi report once it has been concluded. As we always try, in our small but perfectly formed way, to ape UK institutions, there will be some learning for Manx Care in it. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/wes-streeting-nhs-review-labour-b2577894.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 15 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said: It will be interesting (to say the least) to read the Darzi report once it has been concluded. As we always try, in our small but perfectly formed way, to ape UK institutions, there will be some learning for Manx Care in it. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/wes-streeting-nhs-review-labour-b2577894.html you think we're going to get to read it then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 42 minutes ago, wrighty said: 2.2% increase in demand is not that surprising really, given the ageing demographic, the pressure on GPs, and general health-needs inflation which ensures demand grows year on year because the profession keeps inventing new stuff to do. Is this still a knock on from covid times where people might have been able to have treatments etc that would have prevented surgery? impossible question to answer I suppose but just wondering if there is any Data 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 7 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: Is this still a knock on from covid times where people might have been able to have treatments etc that would have prevented surgery? impossible question to answer I suppose but just wondering if there is any Data Doubt it. These figures are for referrals to surgical clinics, and don't imply that these patients will need surgery - just that the referrer thinks they have a problem than needs a specialist (in a surgical discipline) to look at. The majority of patients attending surgeon's clinics do not have surgery. The conversion rate varies according to the specialty. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 2 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: 2.2% increase in demand for surgery 'must be analysed' Between June 2023 and May this year there were more than 22,000 referrals for surgical specialties. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/2-2-increase-in-demand-for-surgery-must-be-analysed/ I'd say it should be analysed. That's a tremendous amount - a huge proportion of the population. But just how many of them are truly really resident here I wonder - how many are expats using the NHS here, maybe using the system in their old age when they have been based god knows where for the last 20 years? Are they truly analysing who they are treating here? wrighty has explained the demographics. There’s another possibility. If that’s a year on year 22 to 23 rise, rather than a trend over several years, it’s statistically insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 25 minutes ago, wrighty said: 2.2% increase in demand is not that surprising really, given the ageing demographic, the pressure on GPs, and general health-needs inflation which ensures demand grows year on year because the profession keeps inventing new stuff to do. Not just ageing, but also possibly growing. Especially if Cannan's campaign to import South African pensioners continues. The Manx Radio piece and the associated sound clip are a bit odd as Oliver Radford just seems to be describing what part of his job is, and yet the whole thing is being sold as a crisis. As you say an overall 2.2% is pretty minor. Whether this reaction is because Manx Care management are stuck in shroud-waving mode or because Manx Radio are over-excitable isn't clear. What is interesting is that there is such variation between specialisms: Ophthalmology +13% Urology +18% ENT +12% General surgery -8% Orthopaedics -6% This suggests some of the increase in referrals may be caused by GPs (who make up the majority of referrers) thinking that patients will get treated quicker (or at all) and so it may be worth referring on. So waiting list initiatives may actually cause an increase in waiting lists, at least in the short term. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 15 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: Is this still a knock on from covid times where people might have been able to have treatments etc that would have prevented surgery? impossible question to answer I suppose but just wondering if there is any Data You'd hope the money they saved by not operating during covid, would be put aside for when they could. Any incidental spending on covid should have been funded by the government as a one off at the time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 41 minutes ago, John Wright said: wrighty has explained the demographics. There’s another possibility. If that’s a year on year 22 to 23 rise, rather than a trend over several years, it’s statistically insignificant. It's the 22,000 that concerns me, not a 2.2% rise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 3 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said: It's the 22,000 that concerns me, not a 2.2% rise. Me too. Another stat (that I recall from radio 4 but paging @Roger Mexico to verify) is that the average person sees their GP 8 times per year. And that includes people like me that haven't seen a GP in decades, so that of people who see their GP, they're probably going 15, 20, more times per year. Some are there every week. And they often come away with prescriptions, sick notes, referrals etc. Too much healthcare is a major problem in the Western World. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercenary Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 (edited) On 7/12/2024 at 2:06 PM, wrighty said: Me too. Another stat (that I recall from radio 4 but paging @Roger Mexico to verify) is that the average person sees their GP 8 times per year. And that includes people like me that haven't seen a GP in decades, so that of people who see their GP, they're probably going 15, 20, more times per year. Some are there every week. And they often come away with prescriptions, sick notes, referrals etc. Too much healthcare is a major problem in the Western World. 3.5 times per person per year in Jersey Not "free", but then a modest charge can make a substantial difference to the long term sustainability of the service. edited to add: source here (https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government and administration/Disease Projection Report 2023 to 2053.pdf), works out at around 4.0 times per person per year, but still substantially less than IOM/UK - if this was achieved on IOM it would be equivalent to doubling the number of GP doctors Edited August 26 by Mercenary more info 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, wrighty said: Me too. Another stat (that I recall from radio 4 but paging @Roger Mexico to verify) is that the average person sees their GP 8 times per year. And that includes people like me that haven't seen a GP in decades, so that of people who see their GP, they're probably going 15, 20, more times per year. Some are there every week. And they often come away with prescriptions, sick notes, referrals etc. Too much healthcare is a major problem in the Western World. It depends what you mean by 'sees their GP' of course. And how many average persons there are. But it's not 8. According to the latest figures from NHS England, for the year up to and including May 2024, there were 362,410,000 appointments[1] made with GP practices for 62,930,000 registered patients in England[2]. So that would average out at 5.76. But most of those appointments weren't with GPs - they're with nurses and other practice employees or specialists. Only 162,433,000 were with GPs, so an average of 2.58 a year. And of course even a single health requirement will likely need more that one GP appointment because of giving out test results and so on. And let's face it, there aren't that many 'people like' you because most of us don't have the opportunity of a quiet word about something with a specialist in our usual place of work.[smiley] [1] All figures taken from this dataset Appointments in General Practice - May 2024: Summary. Rounded to nearest thousand. [2] This looks a bit high (Census population in 2021 was only 56,490,048 for England) and there will be some duplication and non-resident registration, but the UK population does seem to have increased at a fast rate since formal Brexit in 2021 and there is an increase in registered patients over this year alone of 820,000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfc84 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/bone-strengthening-drug-for-post-menopausal-women-wont-be-offered-on-iom/ Another drug not available in IOM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 23 hours ago, lfc84 said: https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/bone-strengthening-drug-for-post-menopausal-women-wont-be-offered-on-iom/ Another drug not available in IOM What body in the IoM decides what treatments are or are not funded to be available from Manx Care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 A female relative of mine has been getting a bone strengthening injection for a couple of years now from Nobles and it is working well so there is a treatment for those with Osteoporosis already available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ghost Ship said: What body in the IoM decides what treatments are or are not funded to be available from Manx Care? DHSC, I assume - they control Manx Care’s budget and commission what they do with it. eta: membership list looks out of date - but I guess it’s these guys… https://www.gov.im/categories/health-and-wellbeing/pharmacy-services/integrated-medicines-optimisation-group-imog/ Edited August 26 by Jarndyce eta 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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