IOM DHSC & MANX CARE

[Andy Onchan]

29 minutes ago, Jarndyce said:

Non-life threatening elective surgery, which takes place across, is paid for out of the tertiary care budget - that’s how I came to that conclusion.

As always, where do you draw the line?  If you employ a specialist locally, it may save money on paper - but if they don’t see enough cases they can lose accreditation.   Hence, we send patients across to centres of excellence.   Not particularly directed at you, Andy - but what procedures/treatments would we stop paying for, in order to save the money?

That's the issue that we should all be asking. Without detailed accounting and other supporting data you really can't make an informed decision.

I'm probably wrong but wouldn't there be big differences in costs between tertiary and elective processes?

I get that a lack of cases might preclude employing a specialist on-island but MC do themselves no favours when there appears to be no rational explanation, other than saying we don't have the money.

It's no wonder folk get hacked off with both MC & DHSC in equal measure.

Edited Wednesday at 10:59 AM by Andy Onchan

[Jarndyce]

3 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

I'm probably wrong but wouldn't there be big differences in costs between tertiary and elective processes?

Not sure what you mean here…?

[Andy Onchan]

1 minute ago, Jarndyce said:

Not sure what you mean here…?

Wouldn't tertiary services require more resources.... specialised personnel, equipment and consumables?

[Jarndyce]

22 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Wouldn't tertiary services require more resources.... specialised personnel, equipment and consumables?

Tertiary budget covers everything that you could have done off-island - that would include emergencies (with airlift), elective procedures, non-elective treatments (including surgery or eg, chemo or radiotherapy) - or face to face consultations, along with travel, accommodation if needed, family/friend escort if needed.   If you need to go across, it all comes out the tertiary budget - and if it can’t be done on the island, you go across.

[Andy Onchan]

4 minutes ago, Jarndyce said:

Tertiary budget covers everything that you could have done off-island - that would include emergencies (with airlift), elective procedures, non-elective treatments (including surgery or eg, chemo or radiotherapy) - or face to face consultations, along with travel, accommodation if needed, family/friend escort if needed.   If you need to go across, it all comes out the tertiary budget - and if it can’t be done on the island, you go across.

Wow.... so there's no way of saying how much elective only procedures cost, on & off island?

[Jarndyce]

14 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Wow.... so there's no way of saying how much elective only procedures cost, on & off island?

Well…the financial report in the board papers (link by MM above) only really gives the top line - but I guess the individual departments (surgery, oncology, etc) have the detail.

eta: there’s a limited breakdown of costs by location (ie, the different hospitals across) and by treatments, from page 37 onward - but I’m not sure that it answers your specific question.

Edited Wednesday at 11:57 AM by Jarndyce
eta

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Harry Lamb said:

I've often heard this allegation of a large number of managers and non-essential medical staff, but I've never seen any supporting evidence or figures to substantiate it. There is some obvious duplication in a small number of roles between Manx Care and the DHSC, but an 'army of managers with clip boards'? Aren't most of the managers what were previously called Sisters or Charge Nurses? Where are the 'non-essential' medical staff? How many are there?

We do know there was a 30% increase in the number of civil servants employed by DHSC/Manx Care between March 2016 and March 2023 - and mostly since the creation of Manx Care.  I analysed the figures over a year ago earlier in this topic and there's a link to the WQ it was based on.  I don't think much of that will be due to renaming of roles, because much of that will have predated that period and the figures won't include anyone on nursing or medical pay scales.

[cissolt]

 

A vague breakdown of the £23.9 million overspend can be seen here.

8.8 million pay award

3.9 million in 'new commitments'

 

[FANDL]

11 minutes ago, cissolt said:

 

A vague breakdown of the £23.9 million overspend can be seen here.

8.8 million pay award

3.9 million in 'new commitments'

 

Just imagine if the 4,451 people who applied for a VISA in the IOM in the last 12 months were actually paying a penny for any healthcare they might receive as they do in the UK? That would be ten million plus a year and more. Certainly enough to pay for their last pay rise - and every year that their VISA lasts for.

But no let’s just further penalize hard working Manx people. We have a government we can’t afford - lazy, incompetent, hates its own population and far too voluminous in number. 

Edited Wednesday at 12:38 PM by FANDL

[mad_manx]

1 hour ago, FANDL said:

Just imagine if the 4,451 people who applied for a VISA in the IOM in the last 12 months were actually paying a penny for any healthcare they might receive as they do in the UK? That would be ten million plus a year and more. Certainly enough to pay for their last pay rise - and every year that their VISA lasts for.

But no let’s just further penalize hard working Manx people. We have a government we can’t afford - lazy, incompetent, hates its own population and far too voluminous in number. 

Does IOM collect this fee for those who apply for these visa in the IOM 

Afaik applications from overseas are handled by UK but surely IOM may be able to collect this fee when people go for visa extensions.? 

 

[FANDL]

13 minutes ago, mad_manx said:

Does IOM collect this fee for those who apply for these visa in the IOM 

Afaik applications from overseas are handled by UK but surely IOM may be able to collect this fee when people go for visa extensions.? 

 

As advertised publicly by specialist immigration agencies (see following link aimed at Saffa’s) we simply don’t charge it. So all the 4,451 applications we received for processing in the IOM last year get the right to Manx NHS treatment throughout their stay here without paying the three or five grand (minimum & more if they have kids) they’d have to have paid at the time of getting their VISA processed in the UK. Yet instead we now charge Manx low earners an extra 2% in income tax to raise money for Manx Care. This government really hates Manx people.

https://www.bic-immigration.com/immigration-news/uk/advantages-visa-isle-of-man/

Edited Wednesday at 01:57 PM by FANDL

[Blade Runner]

10 minutes ago, FANDL said:

As advertised publicly by specialist immigration agencies (see following link aimed at Saffa’s) we simply don’t charge it. So all the 4,451 applications we received for processing in the IOM last year get the right to Manx NHS treatment throughout their stay here without paying the three or five grand (minimum & more if they have kids) they’d have to have paid at the time of getting their VISA processed in the UK. Yet instead we now charge Manx low earners an extra 2% in income tax to raise money for Manx Care. This government really hates Manx people.

https://www.bic-immigration.com/immigration-news/uk/advantages-visa-isle-of-man/

If that is true, then god help you lot.............

You wont need a bigger boat you will need a bigger Island, The Island of Ireland to take over maybe?

[Andy Onchan]

2 hours ago, Jarndyce said:

Well…the financial report in the board papers (link by MM above) only really gives the top line - but I guess the individual departments (surgery, oncology, etc) have the detail.

eta: there’s a limited breakdown of costs by location (ie, the different hospitals across) and by treatments, from page 37 onward - but I’m not sure that it answers your specific question.

I don't think it does to be honest. I'm looking for a definitive split in costs between tertiary and elective. 

MC have said that delaying elective operations will save £220K. How do they (or even we) know that if the costs for that are included with tertiary and other costs? On the basis that it's a nice round number would suggest they don't really know.

As has been said, £220k is a spit in the ocean compared to the shortfall/overspend of millions.

If they can't or won't separate the costs for different types of services to justify their decisions then they deserve every bit of crap thrown at them.

[Jarndyce]

10 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

I'm looking for a definitive split in costs between tertiary and elective. 

I’ve tried to help - but, since elective procedures can be carried out both on island (Nobles budget) and off island (tertiary budget), I’m not sure how that split is going to help you.   Knowing the way MC think, I assumed that their recent plan concerned on-island elective work only, tertiary budget being something else.   I thought you were looking for the tertiary budget breakdown, but you’re not really.

So I’ll stop now.   My bad…

Edited Wednesday at 02:50 PM by Jarndyce

[Andy Onchan]

44 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

If that is true, then god help you lot.............

You wont need a bigger boat you will need a bigger Island, The Island of Ireland to take over maybe?

Somebody has dropped a massive bollock on that IHS fee. Even it was just 50% of the UK then it would go a long way to plugging a hole.