2112 Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 When news of this case first came to light, it was emphasised by the authorities that they sought advice and the case was run by experts in their field in the UK. This was before the case was referred to the police. I think there needs to be a thorough and comprehensive inquiry - not conducted by IOM pet advocates - to find out what went wrong. I can only imagine the amount of money this has cost the taxpayers (compensation for reputation etc) and reputation. It’s also going to mean that doctors, nursing staff and consultants will think twice about working on the island on short term contracts let alone relocating here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Omobono said: Never the less the operation has become one of the biggest legal practices on the Isle of Man , it would be interesting to know who their expert at procurement is and why some contractors seem to be able to run rings around government departments ,and you get the impression the interests of the taxpaying public is not the uppermost thoughts in their minds , The AG will not be doing the procurement just the contracts around it. It is a specialised area and high street lawyers do not necessarily have the right knowledge. The AG should, hopefully, or have engaged someone who can provide them with the framework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 Sort of related to the seeming 'arrest happy' nature of the law enforcement over here. The guy from the IOM who is currently in Kyiv training the locals to do bomb disposal and rightly being lauded in the press, was in Donbas about 5 years ago working for the Ukrainians. He tried raising some money over here to buy some equipment (bomb suits, that kind of thing). When he got back to the Island, he was arrested for 'Funding Terrorism'. Wasn't eventually charged, but as I'm sure you can appreciate the AG and the Police made his life a misery for a good few months. And obviously he was covered in explosive residue, so those little swab machines at the airport went absolutely mental! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 29 minutes ago, Gladys said: The AG will not be doing the procurement just the contracts around it. It is a specialised area and high street lawyers do not necessarily have the right knowledge. The AG should, hopefully, or have engaged someone who can provide them with the framework. It's not just the contracts, the AG's Office actually has a Procurement Division. They also have a Commercial Property Team. Still if anything dodgy happens in these lucrative areas of government, I'm sure that the AG's Office will be very keen to prosecute itself to see justice done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 44 minutes ago, Gladys said: The AG will not be doing the procurement just the contracts around it. It is a specialised area and high street lawyers do not necessarily have the right knowledge. The AG should, hopefully, or have engaged someone who can provide them with the framework. They are in charge of the procurement process & it’s a complicated,very time consuming process for all concerned which is why lots of smaller local companies don’t tender for government contracts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 The procurement process is rather convoluted for small contracts and seems to be the same as for contracts of millions! I would hope that perhaps the Treasury is involved in the latter? Even the online forms are daunting for the average business. Compliance and due diligence are, I think, your area of expertise Gladys but does the Cafe on Snaefell require the same scrutiny as the Prom? Who would you bring in for those large contracts? Legal or Financial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Gladys said: The AG will not be doing the procurement just the contracts around it. It is a specialised area and high street lawyers do not necessarily have the right knowledge. The AG should, hopefully, or have engaged someone who can provide them with the framework. Interesting to see who represented us regarding the new terminal in Liverpool and wether the interests of the isle of Man are protected in some way ? and why someone has chosen a design that uses a Hydraulic system for the landing stage in stead of a tidal based floating system which is commonly used in tidal estuaries ,and along the river Mersey a bit like the over engineered electronic points and traffic management system for a horse tram ,that is currently unravelling and causing embarrassment at the moment , and might I add significant cost !! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 6 hours ago, TheTeapot said: This is why we will never know. What we will also never know is what this has cost the Manx taxpayer. I heard a rumour that the legal costs so far across all four of the accused could be approaching a million quid. If the case basically never should have been brought to court then I guess you and me will be about a million quid down that we’ll also never know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bandits said: What we will also never know is what this has cost the Manx taxpayer. I heard a rumour that the legal costs so far across all four of the accused could be approaching a million quid. If the case basically never should have been brought to court then I guess you and me will be about a million quid down that we’ll also never know about. I seems unlikely to be that high, simply because it was stopped so early in the process. There will still be fairly substantial costs however, both for the defence and any external lawyers and expert advice the prosecution received. Hopefully someone will put in an FoI to find out (no point at the moment though till all bills are in and settled). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: I seems unlikely to be that high, simply because it was stopped so early in the process. There will still be fairly substantial costs however, both for the defence and any external lawyers and expert advice the prosecution received. Hopefully someone will put in an FoI to find out (no point at the moment though till all bills are in and settled). I heard the Union were funding it all and paid for top flight Counsel across the board as they basically knew they wouldn’t be paying the fees in the end as the case was that weak. I agree with you maybe an FOI in time will tell us all how much this fantasy expedition has cost us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 If the four were represented by a medical defence union (and I'd be very surprised if they weren't given the seriousness of the criminal charges against them) then I'd expect the services of experienced and relatively expensive counsel to have been retained - although I doubt any costs so far would approach anywhere near £1 mill. I'm not sure whether under Manx law defence costs can be recovered form the prosecution in this sort of case. PS - the NHS trust I worked for was subject to more than one independent inquiry into the deaths of patients where the trust was severly criticised in respect of the clinical care provided - or not provided. But there was never any question of clinicians being prosecuted for manslaughter. As I think Roger Mexico alluded to previously, it's virtually unheard of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bandits said: I heard the Union were funding it all and paid for top flight Counsel across the board as they basically knew they wouldn’t be paying the fees in the end as the case was that weak. I agree with you maybe an FOI in time will tell us all how much this fantasy expedition has cost us. Oh I could see it being a million or more if it went to full trial, but being stopped this early the amount should be less - it's not clear that the four defendants were represented separately for instance (as they would have been at full trial). There is some uncertainty whether the defence was being paid for by the BMA or their medical defence society/ies but if it was the BMA that would also show how unusual the case was. I don't know if costs can be awarded at committal stage, but it would seem unfair not to given that they could be for stronger cases that made it through that stage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: I don't know if costs can be awarded at committal stage, but it would seem unfair not to given that they could be for stronger cases that made it through that stage. Given the case looks like it should never have come to court surely there will be grounds for their legal expenses to be covered though whatever they are. Otherwise you’re in Putin style territory where any citizen can be basically bankrupted defending themselves from frivolous but aggressive claims that don’t even have to end up in court? Edited April 28, 2022 by Bandits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Ghost Ship said: If the four were represented by a medical defence union (and I'd be very surprised if they weren't given the seriousness of the criminal charges against them) then I'd expect the services of experienced and relatively expensive counsel to have been retained - although I doubt any costs so far would approach anywhere near £1 mill. I'm not sure whether under Manx law defence costs can be recovered form the prosecution in this sort of case. PS - the NHS trust I worked for was subject to more than one independent inquiry into the deaths of patients where the trust was severly criticised in respect of the clinical care provided - or not provided. But there was never any question of clinicians being prosecuted for manslaughter. As I think Roger Mexico alluded to previously, it's virtually unheard of. A top flight London QC can be in excess of £2k per hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 28 minutes ago, The Phantom said: A top flight London QC can be in excess of £2k per hour. I have had close to that fee from the local incompetent "lawyers" I am sure the really good UK lot charge many multiples of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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