Manx Gas

[cissolt]

3 minutes ago, 2112 said:

I can see Manx Gas running rings around our Government, and it’s Civil Service. If MG are in financial straits, and they fold, how are our IOMG going to provide gas to its residents? I foresee bailout galore, bills increasing, people freezing and a toasty warm House of Keys and Tynpotwald Chamber. 

Possibly an over priced government buyout?

[Non-Believer]

5 minutes ago, cissolt said:

Possibly an over priced government buyout?

Another string to the MUA bow, it would give Govt a full suite of Utilities?

[Gladys]

Is MG in trouble?  Not sure that they are in the same way as the UK energy companies, who are not really energy companies but commodity traders who are backing their market trades by fixed contracts to the consumer. 

The current UK situation is caused by the proliferation of energy retailers who have been enticing customers with discounted fixed prices.  That's all fine when the energy supply is relatively stable and predictable.  But when there is extreme volatility in supply and so the prices, it hits the energy providers hardest as they have fixed their income. 

Everyone compares the energy costs here with those in the UK, but perhaps the cost to the consumer here has been more closely aligned to actual supply cost and therefore more realistic and so sustainable. 

IMHO, the current UK situation is borne from a desire to introduce a falsely competitive market to an industry which is, at its heart, pretty monopolistic. 

[b4mbi]

Jesus. Hopefully this will provide focus to the gas extraction debate.

[2112]

28 minutes ago, cissolt said:

Possibly an over priced government buyout?

There will be winners and losers - winners - IOMG and it’s Civil Servants (I’m sure another layer of bureaucracy will be created). Losers will be users of gas, and potential users who will have to choose whether to Heat or to Eat.

[Roger Mexico]

36 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Another string to the MUA bow, it would give Govt a full suite of Utilities?

Actually they've already got it.  It's the Manx Government that controls the gas pipeline and uses to gas to run the power station.  It's the MUA that sell the gas to Manx Gas.  There's even a whole section in the MUA Report about Gas that says "We supplied almost 11 million therms of Natural Gas to the local distributor (Manx Gas)".  Obviously you might then wonder what the point of Manx Gas is, especially given that the Government funded a lot of its investment.

Still it only lost £ 13,392,000 on advance sales in 2019-20 (see p 42, 20-21 Accounts not yet available) so I'm sure that they'l  be able to do much better than that in a time of volatility.

[emesde]

I have a letter here from Manx Gas that was sent to all customers, I think about a year ago (But is not dated so not sure of exact date)

They had worked on a tariff that they felt was good for customers as well as their future  .This they hoped would be approved by Tynwald.

They were expecting to pay an average £93.00 refund to domestic and small business customers on their 2020 bill.followed by a reduction of 13.5 % in gas prices for 2021 and improved pricing arrangements going forward for a 5 year deal .

Government I assume rejected this . Does anyone know why this was ??. Was it purely that they (the government )hadnt negotiated it and therefore there wasn't any kudos for themselves.

I doubt this Government or the new one will do better regarding this industry.

[Bazza Smurf]

7 hours ago, emesde said:

I have a letter here from Manx Gas that was sent to all customers, I think about a year ago (But is not dated so not sure of exact date)

They had worked on a tariff that they felt was good for customers as well as their future  .This they hoped would be approved by Tynwald.

They were expecting to pay an average £93.00 refund to domestic and small business customers on their 2020 bill.followed by a reduction of 13.5 % in gas prices for 2021 and improved pricing arrangements going forward for a 5 year deal .

Government I assume rejected this . Does anyone know why this was ??. Was it purely that they (the government )hadnt negotiated it and therefore there wasn't any kudos for themselves.

I doubt this Government or the new one will do better regarding this industry.

There were two options always on the table. A voluntary deal, with the terms you mention was only possible if agreed and signed of by Tynwald by end of Dec 2020. That never happened. There's probably likely several reasons why, but none are important now. 

Earlier this year the 'Communications Commission' became the regulator and is currently in the consultation stage of introducing new regulation. Please have a look at their website for details. 

Manx Gas only agreed to pay back their part of what a new agreement could or would be, if it were signed. It wasn't. Essentially now their half will never be paid. I have been to their offices and requested it to be paid, gave several reasons why I felt it should be paid, but the answer was no. At this time, about 3 months or so ago, wholesale prices had already started to rocket. 

Treasury has agreed to pay its share of the rebate. I think that will be later this year or early next year. The rebate will likely be paid through CURA. I think it will be about £45 for 2020 and hopefully the same for 2021. Essentially it is about half of the amount promised on the letter. 

Hope that helps a bit. I intend to chase whoever the Treasury and also the Policy Minister after the election.

Hope that helps a bit. The new WACC/ROCE is expected to be about 4.65% and the retail margin about 2% with other improvements also. Please look at the CURA website for more information. I can post a link if you are interested. 

Regarding the likely increase, the roots of it are on the attached picture.

[emesde]

Thanks for your detailed reply. 

It still seems to me that a decent sustainable offer had been worked out by Manx Gas that would have been in the consumers interests. Surely it could have been the basis for a 5 year deal maybe with a couple of face saving  negotiated alterations, if necessary. Here we are a year on and unlikely to be able to get any better sustainable deal and more likely because of changing circumstances a  less advantageous deal for consumers. Sometimes a good deal is a good deal and not something that has to be bettered just to satisfy someone's ego. 

 

[the stinking enigma]

I thought the gas was bought in bulk at a price set a year or so before it was delivered or used? Anyway, manx gas are doing all they can to help their customers by setting up a helpline whereby customers can sign up to a range of repayment options. 

[Bazza Smurf]

6 minutes ago, emesde said:

Thanks for your detailed reply. 

It still seems to me that a decent sustainable offer had been worked out by Manx Gas that would have been in the consumers interests. Surely it could have been the basis for a 5 year deal maybe with a couple of face saving  negotiated alterations, if necessary. Here we are a year on and unlikely to be able to get any better sustainable deal and more likely because of changing circumstances a  less advantageous deal for consumers. Sometimes a good deal is a good deal and not something that has to be bettered just to satisfy someone's ego. 

 

I guess it's simply a case of why it wasn't and which party dragged heals more. I have been quite involved in the gas debate over the years and truthfully I always hoped for proper and fair regulation to be implemented as I like many others believe that the 2015 Gas Agreement allowed domestic gas consumers to be unfairly exposed for 6 years. The "Heads of Terms" for a new agreement were much better for the consumer. That's a fact, because I read them. I think however that they were not so good for the gas company. From memory, the letter you, I and hundreds others received, was before the 'HOT' were presented to Tynwald. MG (in my opinion) had every chance. They dithered, they delayed and the mandate that was 31/12/20 passed. Now we must move on. It's just a damned nightmare that wholesale prices have risen so high. 

[CallMeCurious]

9 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Another string to the MUA bow, it would give Govt a full suite of Utilities?

Don't they get a % bonus if they own all of the same type like Monopoly?

 

http://monopoly.cdbpdx.com/1509312a/tn-250_Mon_1935_1509312_TD-UT.JPG

[Derek Flint]

Manx Gas are in it for nobody other than their shareholders

[doc.fixit]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:06 PM, offshoremanxman said:

Nine gas companies have now gone burst this year. Six since the 7th September. Looks like lots have basically f**ked their futures and hedging strategies up as they haven’t predicted the market spikes.

I don't believe they have gone bust! They have just got out quickly because the profit margin won't be adequate.

I still think strategic services should be a nationalised asset, Public transport, gas, electric, water, sewage, police, medical.

[Numbnuts]

7 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Manx Gas are in it for nobody other than their shareholders

Isn't that what businesses do !??  Problem here is IOMG weren't proactive enough and sat on paperwork it would seem till time elapsed. Maybe they had a preferential deal with MG for supply like they have with MUA .