Next Chief Minister?

[Ramseyboi]

9 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

Having outsourced ideas for the economy to KPMG exactly what does Cannan offer the nation, apart from more war of attrition against our social security system?

His 'offer' is looking after hardworking families - with no genuine commitment to climate change response, or ridding the island of those 'parasitic inequalities'

 

You are coming at this from completely the wrong angle.

He doesn’t offer anything. None of them do.

Best of a bad bunch 

[SleepyJoe]

I know he doesn't offer anything - I've said so

What I hope for is one who will address climate response, inequality, digital economy development, & affordable housing

[Derek Flint]

4 hours ago, Lost Login said:

Unless you were there you have no absolutely no idea whether any thing was achieved or not just like I don't. What we do know is that when I think the UK joined the EU the Isle of Man was basically forgotten about and was tagged on at the end as were the Channel Islands.

It is surely better to engage and try and persuade rather than to stick your head in the sand until you suddenly get a nasty surprise and find there is no time to do anything about it.

The IoM is a little place and all it can do is basically try and get a small level of engagement so it is hopefully listed to. That is probably about one of the best ways the CM can spend his time, especially during Brexit negotiations.

 I have state loads of times I am not overly bothered who is CM as I think they are so constrained as to what they can actually do that expecting major changes whoever is CM is fanciful. 

When the UK joined the EU the Isle of Man elected not to be a part of it. As a result they lost out on a huge amount of potential development funding and support. See; Malta, Balearics etc. 

Regarding Brexit, we were always going to get what we were given and had little to no influence in altering anything.

I have a contact. I know this to be factual.

[Roger Mexico]

Two things that I would like to see in manifestos of any CM Candidate:

Firstly the CM should stop being the Minister responsible for the Cabinet Office and pass that over to the Policy and Reform Minister.  This would reduce the (at least nominal) workload of and pressure on the CM.  It would also hopefully start the reform of the CO and stop it being an ever-expanding report-generating machine and flattery factory for the CM.  And not much else despite the hundreds it employs. 

Secondly it should become possible for Tynwald/the Keys to vote no confidence in individual Ministers.  At the moment it's only possible to vote against the CM/entire Council of Minister, though at least the required majority for that has been reduced.  This means useless Ministers can be retained for loyalty reasons only.

Both these things would reduce the power of the CM in theory, but in practice that of the Chief Secretary.  A CM who wanted to govern effectively would support them, one who just wants to do what he's told on his way to a CBE/OBE would oppose.

[Ramseyboi]

2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Secondly it should become possible for Tynwald/the Keys to vote no confidence in individual Ministers.  At the moment it's only possible to vote against the CM/entire Council of Minister, though at least the required majority for that has been reduced.  This means useless Ministers can be retained for loyalty reasons only.

Nah.

It would just become a constant point scoring exercise with people like Stupot constantly trying to get the people in ministerial positions thrown out regardless of what they had done or not done rather than a house working together to try and move things forward.

 

[Raffles]

I have emailed my mhks to state my strong opposition to Cannon being the next CM. Right wing public school prat.

My first choice is Daphne Caine

2nd choice JPW

If not either of the above then Dr A

[Ham_N_Eggs]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Two things that I would like to see in manifestos of any CM Candidate:

Firstly the CM should stop being the Minister responsible for the Cabinet Office and pass that over to the Policy and Reform Minister.  This would reduce the (at least nominal) workload of and pressure on the CM.  It would also hopefully start the reform of the CO and stop it being an ever-expanding report-generating machine and flattery factory for the CM.  And not much else despite the hundreds it employs. 

Secondly it should become possible for Tynwald/the Keys to vote no confidence in individual Ministers.  At the moment it's only possible to vote against the CM/entire Council of Minister, though at least the required majority for that has been reduced.  This means useless Ministers can be retained for loyalty reasons only.

Both these things would reduce the power of the CM in theory, but in practice that of the Chief Secretary.  A CM who wanted to govern effectively would support them, one who just wants to do what he's told on his way to a CBE/OBE would oppose.

Tynwald should elect Ministers rather than the Chief Minister appointing them. That way Tynwald would also be responsible for firing them. The whole way CoMin is structured is still too much like the Executive Council for my liking. Far too much power in one person's hands.

[Omobono]

1 hour ago, Raffles said:

I have emailed my mhks to state my strong opposition to Cannon being the next CM. Right wing public school prat.

My first choice is Daphne Caine

2nd choice JPW

If not either of the above then Dr A

 

1 hour ago, Raffles said:

I have emailed my mhks to state my strong opposition to Cannon being the next CM. Right wing public school prat.

My first choice is Daphne Caine

2nd choice JPW

If not either of the above then Dr A

Good job you are not a betting man then , for sure as eggs are eggs  you will surely  loose your shirt on this one 

[interestedman]

13 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

Tynwald should elect Ministers rather than the Chief Minister appointing them. That way Tynwald would also be responsible for firing them. The whole way CoMin is structured is still too much like the Executive Council for my liking. Far too much power in one person's hands.

And then you give power instead to each Minister to run their departments to the sole wishes of Tynwald and not to any Governance from COMIN. In other words you should now return to the statutory Board system as COMIN is redundant.

[Ham_N_Eggs]

47 minutes ago, interestedman said:

And then you give power instead to each Minister to run their departments to the sole wishes of Tynwald and not to any Governance from COMIN. In other words you should now return to the statutory Board system as COMIN is redundant.

If you are worried about that then you set the threshold at a super majority rather simple majority meaning other Members of the Council of Ministers have to vote against them. 

Are you saying that the current system, with all the power to hire and fire Minister's resting in the hands of one person, is tenable in a modern democracy? The Island can't claim to have a consensus based parliament if the consensus is only gained through patronage.

[SleepyJoe]

13 hours ago, interestedman said:

And then you give power instead to each Minister to run their departments to the sole wishes of Tynwald and not to any Governance from COMIN. In other words you should now return to the statutory Board system as COMIN is redundant.

The Minister is the Department & should be elected by the House of Keys not appointed at the whim of some demagogue from down north there

[SleepyJoe]

It appears that Ramseyboi is correct, and  - for reasons that we can only speculate at - the newly elected House of Keys is only to be given the choice of two crusty old farts from the somewhat discredited outgoing regime as Chief Minister

So much for our 21st century democracy - I hope the new Governator is watching closely 

It seems Tynwald Court has reinvented Russian Roulette to provide a new model for the game where every slot has a bullet

[Lost Login]

55 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

The Minister is the Department & should be elected by the House of Keys not appointed at the whim of some demagogue from down north there

I have no idea how that is even expected to work. I agree Tynwald could do with reform but reform it for the better not the worse. If each minister is elected by MHK's who sets policy for that department? The Minister? If that is case how do you end up with a coherent overall Government policy and conflicts on policy between departments and "silo mentality" worse than there is now. It would also effectively place more power in the hands of the Treasury Minister as they control how much money each Minister gets to play with so effectively he could control departments by making funding conditional.

There has to be leadership from the top down which others buy into or not. I cannot see how in the real world you can do from the bottom up.   

[Lost Login]

51 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

It appears that Ramseyboi is correct, and  - for reasons that we can only speculate at - the newly elected House of Keys is only to be given the choice of two crusty old farts from the somewhat discredited outgoing regime as Chief Minister

So much for our 21st century democracy - I hope the new Governator is watching closely 

It seems Tynwald Court has reinvented Russian Roulette to provide a new model for the game where every slot has a bullet

Any Member is free to stand provided they receive the appropriate number of nominations so the House is not given only a choice of 2. If only 2 are willing to stand and can obtain sufficient nominations so be it. What is the point of having 4 if it is clear that only 2 have any level of support.

Last time there was 3 candidates and there was bitching on here that Beecroft standing meant HQ got the most votes from the MHKs. There being a presumption on here that if Beecroft had not stood those who voted for her would have voted for Cannan. 

[Roger Mexico]

14 hours ago, interestedman said:

And then you give power instead to each Minister to run their departments to the sole wishes of Tynwald and not to any Governance from COMIN. In other words you should now return to the statutory Board system as COMIN is redundant.

Well of course that's exactly what Guernsey did do.  But I wasn't suggesting that the Chief Minister should lose the power to appoint and dismiss Ministers, just that Tynwald/the Keys should be able to make them resign if they feel they have failed in the job.  Otherwise loyalty becomes more important than competence.