Next Chief Minister?

[747-400]

21 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

He was the one responsible for watering it down. It's not in his interest to reform anything therefore it won't happen.

Sorry state of affairs

[Roger Mexico]

36 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

41 minutes ago, Declan said:

I don’t think JW pretends to want to modernise Tynwald. 

Indeed, if you look at the order papers "prayers" was actually added in Keys at some point in the last five years under JW.

The Keys have always had Prayers since way before Watterson's time (presumably in the Middle Ages as well).  Here's an example from 1999.  The only difference from Tynwald is that they are normally taken by the Keys Chaplain (who's usually the Vicar of St Georges so they don't have far to come).

Watterson loves all the wigs and flummery, but I think he does want to modernise the processes - look at the changes to Questions and the way that the PAC is starting to examine current issues (like Covid and Ranson) rather than just doing post mortems after the dust has settled.  It's a mistake to confuse 'modernising' the superficial things but leaving the systems intact (which is very New Labour) with the opposite where you change what matters but leave the silly bits so you don't upset the traditionalists.

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, 747-400 said:

And secondly, dust off Lord Lisvane’s report. 

Actually Lisvane was over-rated.  People tend to support it because they see any change as good from the current system, but his basic problem was that, as a member of the House of Lords, he thought the House of Lords was the best possible system, while in reality every other country in the world sees it as a ridiculous (and increasingly corrupt) laughing stock. 

Even if it was a paragon, it would be unsuitable here for all sort of historical and practical reasons.  And of course he didn't (and couldn't) recommend what should be done, which is have LegCo elected by the people.

[Ham_N_Eggs]

3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

The Keys have always had Prayers since way before Watterson's time (presumably in the Middle Ages as well).  Here's an example from 1999.  The only difference from Tynwald is that they are normally taken by the Keys Chaplain (who's usually the Vicar of St Georges so they don't have far to come).

Watterson loves all the wigs and flummery, but I think he does want to modernise the processes - look at the changes to Questions and the way that the PAC is starting to examine current issues (like Covid and Ranson) rather than just doing post mortems after the dust has settled.  It's a mistake to confuse 'modernising' the superficial things but leaving the systems intact (which is very New Labour) with the opposite where you change what matters but leave the silly bits so you don't upset the traditionalists.

I know there have always been prayers, however, they never featured as an item until it was added by Watterson. Item No 1 is now prayers. Your example actually proves my point.

I'm not sure being able to submit written questions at any point during the year is going to prove to be the most cost effective use of people's time. Nor is the Keys being able to scrutinise secondary legislation. 

 

[McCallig]

I can see the whole process being bogged down in a quagmire of questions (written and oral) in the Keys and Tynwald by the host of new MHKs who have pledged to "hold government to account".

It's very early days but I suspect the general election has produced a crew more interested in five (salaried) years of rocking the boat, rather than helping to row it.

[SleepyJoe]

"The same food on a different plate . . . "

[SleepyJoe]

2 hours ago, Declan said:

I don’t think JW pretends to want to modernise Tynwald. 

John Wannenburgh is pretty keen to see some progress in the Keys I think

Tynwald as an institution is beyond hope 

[quilp]

13 hours ago, SleepyJoe said:

"The same food on a different plate . . . "

Two cheeks of the same arse?

Edited October 6, 2021 by quilp

[Anyone]

It matters little who becomes chief minister as they are irrelevant in the whole scheme of things. The market will dictate what happens in spite of not because of what government does or does not do. Government is there to facilitate private enterprise rather than suppress it. Sadly , those who get elected think they know better , but are in most cases deluded.  So nothing will happen and 5 years from now it will be the same but with probably Rob Callister as chief minister. But don’t worry , just as Donald was not a disaster neither will he.

 

[Omobono]

2 hours ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

I know there have always been prayers, however, they never featured as an item until it was added by Watterson. Item No 1 is now prayers. Your example actually proves my point.

I'm not sure being able to submit written questions at any point during the year is going to prove to be the most cost effective use of people's time. Nor is the Keys being able to scrutinise secondary legislation. 

 

Prayers have been said prior to a House of keys meeting for over several  100 years ,  and long may it continue ,!

 

[alpha-acid]

Why we are secular prayers should have no part in Government

[Roger Mexico]

12 hours ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

I know there have always been prayers, however, they never featured as an item until it was added by Watterson. Item No 1 is now prayers. Your example actually proves my point.

I'm not sure being able to submit written questions at any point during the year is going to prove to be the most cost effective use of people's time. Nor is the Keys being able to scrutinise secondary legislation. 

If they are actually taking place, as they always have, I can't see what your objection to Prayers appearing on the Order Paper is.  Surely it's just a warning notice: "This product may contain traces of God". 

I hope the new way of doing Written Questions has two effects.  Firstly MHKs may use them to get the data which they can then use at the next Tynwald to ask better informed and more targeted Oral Questions.  It would speed up the process in other words. 

Secondly it means that rather than all the information being released in one big data dump on sitting days and all sorts of stuff being overlooked, if it is dribbled out across the month, politicians and media may pick up and pursue more issues that arise from it.  Obviously both these factors rely on them actually changing the way they work and the civil service not being even more obstructive than usual, but it's worth a try.

There has been a big shift in recent years from primary to secondary legislation for various reasons, most of them bad.  So more scrutiny can only be welcomed and might stop the ridiculous situation of Tynwald sessions lasting four days, with ridiculously crammed Order Papers and loads of items getting nodded through out of tiredness.  Meanwhile Keys and even more so LegCo have nothing much to do at their meetings.

 

[GreyWolf]

Not sure of the process but maybe for devilment or trying to get there moneys worth out of a experienced politician could two members nominate and second Watty for CM  I know he’d have to except the nomination first but If he refused would that not show his intention of easy life on the gravy train, he did mutter I believe, that he would consider CM if support was there.  Tony Brown came from speakers job from memory.

Gut feeling says prickly Alf  but Allison seems to have more Charm and maybe get more support from newbies to close to call for me.

[James Blonde]

If Alf is serious about cutting the CS and privatising functions that have no place in the public sector then he is the least worse choice. 

[SleepyJoe]

1 hour ago, GreyWolf said:

Not sure of the process but maybe for devilment or trying to get there moneys worth out of a experienced politician could two members nominate and second Watty for CM  I know he’d have to except the nomination first but If he refused would that not show his intention of easy life on the gravy train, he did mutter I believe, that he would consider CM if support was there.  Tony Brown came from speakers job from memory.

Gut feeling says prickly Alf  but Allison seems to have more Charm and maybe get more support from newbies to close to call for me.

Chuck another conservative into the mix? 

It's a shit cake recipe this one