SleepyJoe Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, Lost Login said: No sh1t Sherlock? Yes they can but if you can get policy to be part of the Government's policies and it is coherent with other policies it is more likely to get approved. Generally it is government policies that are presented and approved or where such policy is adopted and supported by Govt. I think that Allinson's abortion reform legislation was a policy he introduced as a back bencher but it was heavily supported by Government. The point was that generally you are likely to get more done and have more influence as part of Government than being outside it. If only we got to elect the government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Declan said: Let’s raise the bar a little higher. The bar was broken when the public elected the likes of Cregeen, Baker, Boot and Harmer all led by Quayle. Things can’t get any worse, it can only get better - no D.REAM! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, 747-400 said: More effective to be ”in” like a Deparmental member I would say, than sitting outside. Then you may see the problems first hand and have a better chance of improving things. Do you think the past decade has proved that? How much power to change things have Departmental Members actually shown over that time? At best they seem to be just repeating whatever the thinking among the civil servants in the Department was. In that their main function has been to illustrate how ill-informed and incompetent many of those civil servants are. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said: If only we got to elect the government The old saying we get the Government we deserve by voting them in. In some cases votes were used wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747-400 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Do you think the past decade has proved that? How much power to change things have Departmental Members actually shown over that time? At best they seem to be just repeating whatever the thinking among the civil servants in the Department was. In that their main function has been to illustrate how ill-informed and incompetent many of those civil servants are. Yes, I do. I believe they do have an impact, though it comes down to the individual. I know of cases. But we obviously not here about these. And change is often managed quietly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, 2112 said: The old saying we get the Government we deserve by voting them in. In some cases votes were used wisely. How did you get to vote the government in when I did not? I've still yet to see a single policy proposal and the general election process is over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 30 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Do you think the past decade has proved that? How much power to change things have Departmental Members actually shown over that time? At best they seem to be just repeating whatever the thinking among the civil servants in the Department was. In that their main function has been to illustrate how ill-informed and incompetent many of those civil servants are. I expect it depends who you are. The policies and programme of Government will, I expect, have been drawn up by all the ministers with various pieces of horse trading. It will not simply be a case of whoever is CM simply down his wish list. Last time out I expect AC wanted certain things from HQ in return for being Treasury minister. Possibly CT and also certain other individuals. AC would have been in a strong position to negotiate with HQ. The likes of Malarky less so. I don't think there have been any ministerial appointments as yet and I would expect that some of those that AC wishes to have as ministers will be able to influence direction and policy. We just won't know about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 How can the Ministers have drawn up the policy when none have been appointed yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 52 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Do you think the past decade has proved that? How much power to change things have Departmental Members actually shown over that time? At best they seem to be just repeating whatever the thinking among the civil servants in the Department was. In that their main function has been to illustrate how ill-informed and incompetent many of those civil servants are. At which point since its inception did the Ministerial system take the turn to get us where we are? When Miles Walker brought it in in '86(?) it was going to be the cure for all past Governmental woes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, Lost Login said: I expect it depends who you are. The policies and programme of Government will, I expect, have been drawn up by all the ministers with various pieces of horse trading. It will not simply be a case of whoever is CM simply down his wish list. Last time out I expect AC wanted certain things from HQ in return for being Treasury minister. Possibly CT and also certain other individuals. AC would have been in a strong position to negotiate with HQ. The likes of Malarky less so. I don't think there have been any ministerial appointments as yet and I would expect that some of those that AC wishes to have as ministers will be able to influence direction and policy. We just won't know about it. Maybe, though I'm not sure what Cannan did get. Poor financial governance just continued on in the old way - maybe that's what he wanted. As for Thomas we know that the assurances he got proved to be useless - he was sacked for exercising them. Of course one thing that we don't know is what promises Cannan has made for votes (including promising positions) and whether he will be able to fulfil them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747-400 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Maybe, though I'm not sure what Cannan did get. Poor financial governance just continued on in the old way - maybe that's what he wanted. As for Thomas we know that the assurances he got proved to be useless - he was sacked for exercising them. Of course one thing that we don't know is what promises Cannan has made for votes (including promising positions) and whether he will be able to fulfil them. Clare Barber said in her proposal speach that it was a clean campaign and no horse trading had gone on with offers…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: No ministers of the current government actually exist yet. I was being generic, I did not specifically refer to any particular government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 14 minutes ago, 747-400 said: Clare Barber said in her proposal speach that it was a clean campaign and no horse trading had gone on with offers…. I am sure that probably was the case when it came to voting. With regard to putting together a Government I expect it is a different matter. Each will want some input if they are going to be a Minister 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Of course, the Minister is the department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747-400 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) . Edited October 14, 2021 by 747-400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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