Congratulations Stu Peters

[Max Power]

24 minutes ago, HeliX said:

There are lots of alternatives to a heavily militarised police force, which is what defunding the police calls for the end of. I really do encourage you to take a look at the book linked above, or if you don't have that sort of time, this is an OK article but nowhere near as good as the book https://www.vox.com/21312191/police-reform-defunding-abolition-black-lives-matter-protests

Thanks HeliX, interesting but very complex. The Police have been handed a lot of responsibilities, over many years, for which it's difficult for any one officer to have the skills to carry them all out.

It's difficult to compare the police in the UK to those in the US as ours are mostly unarmed, whereas the US police are armed, as are many of the people at incidents which they may be called to. 

I think that reform would be admirable but I feel it would be a mammoth task and fraught with danger at first.  

 

[Max Power]

49 minutes ago, Someone Who Cares said:

More word twisting?  The English language is full and rich.

Unfortunately that's a game which gets played all to often in debates such as this. 

[HeliX]

33 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Thanks HeliX, interesting but very complex. The Police have been handed a lot of responsibilities, over many years, for which it's difficult for any one officer to have the skills to carry them all out.

It's difficult to compare the police in the UK to those in the US as ours are mostly unarmed, whereas the US police are armed, as are many of the people at incidents which they may be called to. 

I think that reform would be admirable but I feel it would be a mammoth task and fraught with danger at first.  

 

The problem in the UK is much smaller, though is still present. And as you say, pretty much stems from the police being expected to be not only law enforcement, but also social workers, mental health workers, cat rescuers, etc etc. In the US the problem is magnified many times not only due to them carrying arms, but also due to the overwhelming focus of their training being on deploying the use of firearms - even though only a minuscule fraction of calls require it.

Defunding the police is more about focusing the police's effort into responding to violent situations, and investigating crime. Everything else should be handled by appropriately trained specialists in mental health, domestic issues, drug issues etc.

[Lost Login]

4 hours ago, Amadeus said:

Congratulations Stu. Some of his views might be unpopular and I also disagree with some of them, but he was democratically elected and therefore should be judged at the end of his term and not right now. 

Oswald Moseley was an elected as an MP in the UK, various members of the BNP were elected as Councillors in the UK. Would you have argued when they were elected that we should wait to the end of their terms before judging?

SP has history and it is fair to judge now. Obviously how he performs as an MHK may well change people's judgement for the better or worse.

[manxman34]

14 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

I'm witheringly keen to 'educate myself' Declan.

So to call a group 'disgusting vermin' is a crime, but to use it against an identified person is not? Well, every day is a school day!

Thanks to Max and the positive posters. To those who think I'm an idiot (or worse) but will give me the benefit of time to prove myself, thanks.

To the haters: you always be hatin' and despite my best efforts I'll probably always be biting. And life goes on.

 

I can't wait to see what you achieve. Perhaps we could have a regular review on here - not of what you've said, or questions you've asked, but of actual, positive outcomes that benefit the Isle of Man.

[Max Power]

14 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Oswald Moseley was an elected as an MP in the UK, various members of the BNP were elected as Councillors in the UK. Would you have argued when they were elected that we should wait to the end of their terms before judging?

SP has history and it is fair to judge now. Obviously how he performs as an MHK may well change people's judgement for the better or worse.

There's no comparison to Oswald and the BNP? Stu hasn't any history of saying much which would even tar him remotely as even a supporter of any associated group? I think Stu has been limited to asking parents to watch their child's behaviour when in public and saying that he didn't think there was much racial discrimination on the island. I don't think we need to break out the jackboots and swastika armbands just yet?

[forestboy]

Can’t understand why Stu is being talked about so much good or bad when the other 23 successful candidates have little or no coverage. 

[Max Power]

4 minutes ago, forestboy said:

Can’t understand why Stu is being talked about so much good or bad when the other 23 successful candidates have little or no coverage. 

Because they are all vanilla clones of the expected 'normal' MHK perhaps?

[Declan]

25 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Oswald Moseley was an elected as an MP in the UK, various members of the BNP were elected as Councillors in the UK. Would you have argued when they were elected that we should wait to the end of their terms before judging?

 

We're not really there are we? The concerns about Stu are not that he will propose discriminatory policies, or incite violence but -1. he'll say something stupid and make us look like the fast show was a documentary 2. he won't do anything other than grump 3. he'll be under researched and vote on gut instinct. All those things are within his control. He may step up. We've got to wait and hope that he does.

[SleepyJoe]

Stu is no fool & will step up to the plate. I look forward to hearing his views on the future of transport & motorsports, amongst others

[Lost Login]

3 hours ago, Someone Who Cares said:

Are you sure you are visiting the right site?  Home - Black Lives Matter - There is nothing on this site calling for Kill Whitey.  Are you trying to use lies to stir up racial hatred?

I think there are two or more sites. There is a BLM political group who I expect many would view as extreme. There is also the general BLM movement which involves taking the knee prior to Premier League Games which is basically a general expression of support against prejudice. I would hope most would find it hard to be against their principals however you have people, including SP, who deliberately try and confuse the two rather than be honest and argue they effectively believe white people are not treated better than black people generally, or that they are in favour of certain prejudices, or that some races are superior to those of other races.

SP's comments about why he would not take a knee where in my view disgraceful. Basically he would not make a demonstration of support against prejudice as it might cover black guys who had criminal records who been unlawfully killed or mistreated by police. Turn that around, the odd member of the British Armed Forces has been involved in atrocities. Does that mean we should not support Help for Heroes, Armistice Day etc. Not in my mind but that effectively is the argument SP and others are employing.

People don't stop singing the UK national anthem of flying the Union Jack or the Flag of St George because the BNP and various right wing English/British nationalist parties have done some pretty disgusting things in their,  to the point that the flag of St George almost became seen as a symbol of English Nationalists. Hopefully SP would not support many of the acts that racist thugs in England or the UK have done but I bet that would not stop him singing the UK national anthem, flying the flag but that a black guy who was killed was a "career criminal" that is enough for him to be against taking a knee to demonstrate support against discrimination against "black people". That looks pretty obvious racism to me. 

I am never exactly sure what woke and anti-woke mean these days, but what I am sure off is that people use to try and hide behind rather than state their true views which they know many might find objectionable. It is much easier to say I am against X or Y as I am being anti woke rather than because I have a prejudice against black people, homosexuals etc.

People used to start conversations by saying "I am not racist but.................." and you knew what was coming was basically a racist view. Now as soon as people say I am being anti woke you know they basically what to express a racist, homophobic or other view but that than stand up and admit to it they try and behind a veil to pretend they don't.

[Lost Login]

4 minutes ago, Declan said:

We're not really there are we? The concerns about Stu are not that he will propose discriminatory policies, or incite violence but -1. he'll say something stupid and make us look like the fast show was a documentary 2. he won't do anything other than grump 3. he'll be under researched and vote on gut instinct. All those things are within his control. He may step up. We've got to wait and hope that he does.

 

23 minutes ago, Max Power said:

There's no comparison to Oswald and the BNP? Stu hasn't any history of saying much which would even tar him remotely as even a supporter of any associated group? I think Stu has been limited to asking parents to watch their child's behaviour when in public and saying that he didn't think there was much racial discrimination on the island. I don't think we need to break out the jackboots and swastika armbands just yet?

I appreciate it was a slightly extreme example but was merely trying to demonstrate that if have evidence to base a view on you do simply go "OK lets wait and see if that is really a persons view.

I don't remember reading on this site calls for everybody to desist from expressing views on Michael Jossem or other LVP candidates until we saw if they were elected and I doubt if they had been there would have been calls to give them a full term before commenting. 

[Gladys]

[Someone Who Cares]

1 hour ago, Lost Login said:

People used to start conversations by saying "I am not racist but.................." and you knew what was coming was basically a racist view. Now as soon as people say I am being anti woke you know they basically what to express a racist, homophobic or other view but that than stand up and admit to it they try and behind a veil to pretend they don't.

I just found out that I have a limit on likes.  Unfortunately I cannot like your post.  I can repost it and express my thanks for you taking the time to post some truth and common sense.  Power to you.

[joebean]

1 hour ago, Lost Login said:

 

I appreciate it was a slightly extreme example but was merely trying to demonstrate that if have evidence to base a view on you do simply go "OK lets wait and see if that is really a persons view.

I don't remember reading on this site calls for everybody to desist from expressing views on Michael Jossem or other LVP candidates until we saw if they were elected and I doubt if they had been there would have been calls to give them a full term before commenting. 

Slightly extreme? I would say the only thing extreme in the comparison was the stupidity. To infer that a lack of support for taking the knee and the concept of automatic privilege due to skin colour equates to fascism is just ridiculous and demonstrates how facile opinions on these matters have become.