General Election 2021 Results Analysis

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

Is compulsory remembrance in the spirit of the event? 

Fully agree.

Theres been a huge shift in public attitudes over the last 30 years. It seems tied in with the “having to be involved” public out pouring of grief for people they don’t know   ( the Diana effect ). It’s also connected to more recent conflicts, Falklands, 2 Gulf wars, Iraq and Afghanistan.

I’ve always worn white poppies. It’s how I was brought up. I also was brought up that public demonstrations of religious belief, organised religion and public expression of mass emotion weren’t appropriate. They’re for in private.

Maybe I’m repressed. But remembrance, in private, talking to god in private, grieving in private, etc are my norm.

Ive noticed an increasing intolerance of white poppies, a pressure to wear red poppies ( of ever increasing size or extravagance - is it just another form of virtue signalling? ), to conform. I’m unhappy about events that appear, to me to glorify, militarism, armed forces, etc. A pressure to be compelled to attend public events.

I give to RBL collections for the good they do for ex soldiers, the injured and their families. But I like to give to charities of my choice. HIV/AIDS, Samaritans, Victim Support and Leukaemia/Cancer charities because those all represent things that have affected my life. I also give to RNLI because, living near the coast, you never know.

Im unhappy about things like the armed forces covenant. But clearly if you’re injured or killed in the course of your employment any decent employer should look after you/your family.

But attending a formal cenotaph parade shouldn’t be compulsory, even for politicians. Not attending should not attract opprobrium.

My very personal view, being expressed publicly, is that Remembrance as currently seen doesn’t reflect enough on the dead and injured of all wars and all sides or remind us to not allow it to ever happen again.

 

[Roger Mexico]

35 minutes ago, Barlow said:

Any politician who doesn't agree with attending an Armistice Parade should say publicly, although of course I suppose that is what they are doing by not attending. I am glad this subject has been raised and so maybe this thread could be rejuvenated come the next election.

I'm sorry, but this is pretty much the definition of virtue signalling - demanding that people turn up at an event to show how virtuous they are and then demanding they explain themselves if they don't.  All so that others can then signal their virtue by denouncing anyone who fails to measure up to whatever  arbitrary demands they have made.

The tragedy is that it means that something that should unite the country has become divisive - for no better reason than newspaper people want an excuse to have a go at people they don't like.  Some people whose brains have been boiled by reading those same papers over the years go along with it; the rest of the population are indifferent or disgusted.  And you see fewer and fewer poppies worn on the street as 'poppy fascism' becomes seen as the reason for the events, rather than remembrance of the dead and care for the living.

Presumably the takings of the British Legion appeal suffer as well, though many are happy to give but not wear the poppy.  Which is fairly telling.  Not that the papers (who spent the 1930s saying we shouldn't be nasty to that nice Mr Hitler) and their owners will care.

[Roger Mexico]

Mind you, if Douglas Council did turn up as ordered, en masse, at least being invaded by the Germans would be on theme.

[Barlow]

Hold on folks, I don't think anyone was suggesting compulsory.
But if you don't attend . . .you don't attend. Fair enough.

Let the public decide. Maybe it's ok. The following year there will be less and less politicians who don't attend. I'm sure of it.

World Wars are becoming forgotten history year by year. And the more self-centred in our society get to live and enjoy their lives just how they feel they should without any acknowledgement to those gone before them who gave their lives in the horror of war.

But wokedom doesn't need to see these things, or be reminded of the past. They are the bright new things in a bright new world.

[doc.fixit]

2 hours ago, Barlow said:

As an elected representative of your community? I would suggest yes it is, certainly for anyone with an ounce of moral fibre and decency. But of course the word 'compulsory' can and will be construed into something very unpleasant. So aye, just do what one's own conscience tells you.

Maybe the woke types on this matter will one day get their way and there will be no one to attend Armistice Day parades. 

 

Of course there are those of us who quietly remember every day and have no need of a public display! 

[Lost Login]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

I’m unhappy about events that appear, to me to glorify, militarism, armed forces, etc. A pressure to be compelled to attend public events.

I have always been uncomfortable with regard to this aspect as various events, especially the parade at the Cenotaph appear like military events. I think it is only in the last few years civilians who were close relatives of people who lost their lives in wars have been allowed to become involved. Prior to that I believe it was entirely military parties.

Remembrance is important and I understand the importance to those who served and lost close friends but I just wish that public remembrance acts seemed less like a military event. 

 

[SleepyJoe]

35 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Mind you, if Douglas Council did turn up as ordered, en masse, at least being invaded by the Germans would be on theme.

Roger!

[The Phantom]

Interesting tangent.  I served, but don't attend the parades.  However I certainly took some moments at 11am on Sunday in private contemplation and respect for other veterans.

I did notice this year there seemed to be a distinct lack of Poppy sellers.  I didn't actually get a Poppy until Friday evening at Tesco and that was unmanned! 

I do think that the whole remembrance thing does seem focused on WW1 and WW2 which are obviously getting dimmer and dimmer in peoples memories and perceived relevance.  I think people need to be reminded that it's for all wars and veterans etc.  In the US it's actually called 'Veteran's Day' which is much clearer.   

[Lost Login]

2 hours ago, Barlow said:

As an elected representative of your community? I would suggest yes it is, certainly for anyone with an ounce of moral fibre and decency. But of course the word 'compulsory' can and will be construed into something very unpleasant. So aye, just do what one's own conscience tells you.

Maybe the woke types on this matter will one day get their way and there will be no one to attend Armistice Day parades. 

 

Trying to equate how people act on remembrance day as being woke or anti woke is pretty cheap and seemingly not to understand the whole point of remembrance day. 

[Zarley]

36 minutes ago, Barlow said:

Hold on folks, I don't think anyone was suggesting compulsory.
But if you don't attend . . .you don't attend. Fair enough.

Let the public decide. Maybe it's ok. The following year there will be less and less politicians who don't attend. I'm sure of it.

World Wars are becoming forgotten history year by year. And the more self-centred in our society get to live and enjoy their lives just how they feel they should without any acknowledgement to those gone before them who gave their lives in the horror of war.

But wokedom doesn't need to see these things, or be reminded of the past. They are the bright new things in a bright new world.

My father was a tail-gunner in WWII. He was the only survivor when his plane was shot down in an Italian bay. I don't expect any politician to attend a remembrance event and its not "woke" to feel this way. Give your head a wobble.

[Lost Login]

5 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Interesting tangent.  I served, but don't attend the parades.  However I certainly took some moments at 11am on Sunday in private contemplation and respect for other veterans.

I did not serve but I know people who lost their lives or who had family members who have lost their lives whilst serving. I think if I had served I would choose to do what you do as I have never really understood those who simply stop in the middle of Tesco for 2 minutes at 11:00 on the 11 of the 11 to "remember the fallen". I would want to go somewhere to remember properly rather than simply stop for 2 minutes and then almost instantly move on and forget about.

I am though the wrong person to really have an opinion. The family and friends of those who have died may find it very comforting.

I prefer the name remembrance day rather than veterans as there are plenty of people who have lost their lives in wars who were not "veterans". One of the points I was told about remembrance day was not just to remember those who were died, injured etc but to remember all the horrors of war in the hope that it might reduce future conflicts. Maybe we need to slightly amend so it is a remembrance/peace day where we can all be nice to each other no matter our views and opinions. They effectively did that across no mans last across the trenches one Christmas and that is a far poor powerful measure to me on how we should all get along.  

 

[Lost Login]

46 minutes ago, Barlow said:

Hold on folks, I don't think anyone was suggesting compulsory.

Suggesting that if a politician does not attend Armistice day should be kicked out at the next election sure reads as if you believe it should be compulsory if you want to continue as a politician 

6 hours ago, Barlow said:

Fair enough, but that day of all days, politicians are there to represent people from our community. 
Any politician, big or small, who does not attend Armistice Day irrespective of their personal beliefs, needs to hang their head in shame and deserves to get their arse kicked out next election. 

 

[Gladys]

21 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

I did not serve but I know people who lost their lives or who had family members who have lost their lives whilst serving. I think if I had served I would choose to do what you do as I have never really understood those who simply stop in the middle of Tesco for 2 minutes at 11:00 on the 11 of the 11 to "remember the fallen". I would want to go somewhere to remember properly rather than simply stop for 2 minutes and then almost instantly move on and forget about.

I am though the wrong person to really have an opinion. The family and friends of those who have died may find it very comforting.

I prefer the name remembrance day rather than veterans as there are plenty of people who have lost their lives in wars who were not "veterans". One of the points I was told about remembrance day was not just to remember those who were died, injured etc but to remember all the horrors of war in the hope that it might reduce future conflicts. Maybe we need to slightly amend so it is a remembrance/peace day where we can all be nice to each other no matter our views and opinions. They effectively did that across no mans last across the trenches one Christmas and that is a far poor powerful measure to me on how we should all get along.  

 

I agree that the focus should be to promote peace.  But, sadly as we all know, when a finite resource or ideology is being threatened, the usual response is war.  

[quilp]

1 hour ago, Barlow said:

Hold on folks, I don't think anyone was suggesting compulsory.
But if you don't attend . . .you don't attend. Fair enough.

Let the public decide. Maybe it's ok. The following year there will be less and less politicians who don't attend. I'm sure of it.

In t'lsle o'man, the UK or both?

1 hour ago, Barlow said:

World Wars are becoming forgotten history year by year...

The amount of viewers who watch programmes about both wars on YouTube for instance might throw some doubt on this claim. 

[SleepyJoe]

Go to WW2TV channel on YouTube - Paul Woodage commemorates veterans and those ever on patrol pretty much everyday