Manx Gas MEGA Price Rise

[John Wright]

10 minutes ago, finlo said:

I seem to recall the taxpayer footing the bill for infrastructure upgrades about twenty years ago?

And I seem to recall that Calor Manx took over the completely clapped out municipal gas companies in Castletown, Port St Mary/Erin, Peel and Ramsey, then owned by the water & gas authority and using a non standard product. There had been no investment for years. And it was part of the deal to upgrade and move them, and Douglas, to Natural Gas.

Yes, government paid some of the cost, and of the inter connector, because the alternative was unthinkable in terms of the cost to customer, or the cessation of supply. 

It’s down to economy of scale, again.

Yes, accountants can play with P/L and Balance sheet figures, but the framework is tight and doesn’t allow leeway.

In all honesty I’d be looking at discriminatory pricing, whereby government, and other big consumers, get their gas at a fraction of domestic tariffs. So low I’d be surprised if it wasn’t being subsidised by ordinary consumers.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said:

I'm not seeing much investment from IEG's  PE owners. I'm seeing a lot of take and not much give.

And I think we all know that a decent accountant will make a profit and loss account show whatever the company needs it to show. 

You mean a 'crooked' accountant might try and make a profit and loss account show whatever the company needs it to show. They wouldn't get away with it for long. Google Sever Trent Water scandal

1 hour ago, finlo said:

I seem to recall the taxpayer footing the bill for infrastructure upgrades about twenty years ago?

Which infrastructure upgrades? Do you mean the intra island gas network or the gas pipeline bring wholesale gas in

[finlo]

50 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

You mean a 'crooked' accountant might try and make a profit and loss account show whatever the company needs it to show. They wouldn't get away with it for long. Google Sever Trent Water scandal

Which infrastructure upgrades? Do you mean the intra island gas network or the gas pipeline bring wholesale gas in

Both.

[Happier diner]

4 minutes ago, finlo said:

Both.

As far as I am aware the cost of the undersea/cross island wholesale pipeline is paid for by MUA as part of their charges (which is levied on electricity prices and selling gas to Manx Gas). I believe that is paid off in a few years.

The cost of replacing underground distribution pipes (retail gas) is paid for by Manx Gas. But its clear that they do the smallest amount of investment they can get away with....which they are bound to do.

[finlo]

3 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

As far as I am aware the cost of the undersea/cross island wholesale pipeline is paid for by MUA as part of their charges (which is levied on electricity prices and selling gas to Manx Gas). I believe that is paid off in a few years.

The cost of replacing underground distribution pipes (retail gas) is paid for by Manx Gas. But its clear that they do the smallest amount of investment they can get away with....which they are bound to do.

We gave/lent them the money to install the new network, 28 million IIRC.

[Happier diner]

6 minutes ago, finlo said:

We gave/lent them the money to install the new network, 28 million IIRC.

That's correct. I think that its almost all been paid back, unlike the cost of the Station

[hissingsid]

I really feel for customers of Manx Gas the Company that just keeps giving they were screwing their customers over years before this latest crisis.  I feel sure though that electric and oil will not be far behind.   It is going to be a hard winter let us hope it is a mild one.

[hissingsid]

I really don’t know how that has popped up again.   When I referred to the screwing bit it was regarding standing charges which meant my friends on gas were cutting down on usage but bills were still going up, one friend found out she was on the wrong tariff had been for years and had been overcharged she has also not been given any rebate that was promised to gas customers last year and according to Facebook a lot of people are in the same boat or have received derisory amounts of a couple of pounds.  I agree that standing charges are part of parcel but should not exceed the usage amount on a normal consumers account who has been using gas not been away for long periods.

[Stu Peters]

Economy of scale thing - at a presentation this week someone said that in the UK a mile of gas pipe might serve a million homes, whereas here it might only serve a few hundred.

[Andy Onchan]

4 hours ago, John Wright said:

As they’ve had regulated prices, for a very long time, I’m not sure how that can be alleged. And the amount they are allowed to profit has been reduced by 25% this year and looks to be reduced again. It’s like the steam packet and cheap fares. We all want, but infrastructure costs and replacement need profit for reinvestment.

Yes, we are all going to suffer. The poor the most. And support should be in place. But small markets are expensive because of the higher infrastructure costs per capita and the lack of economy of scale.

Im in Spain at present. We get our gas in 5 foot high gas bottles. We’ve 10 of them. Two banks of 5. Just had to switch over. Order 5 new. Last order was 6 October 2020. €379 today, €250 then. August 2019 €220.

And, despite huge amounts of solar and wind generation Spanish wholesale electric costs have gone through the roof. It’s only trickling through to domestic charging. But my tariff is set to double for the next bill. It’ll be more per unit than in IoM. And spain is a competitive market. I’ve swapped supplier.

 

I thought IOMG and the GMP forked out for the last lot of major infrastructure??

[Happier diner]

12 minutes ago, Stu Peters said:

Economy of scale thing - at a presentation this week someone said that in the UK a mile of gas pipe might serve a million homes, whereas here it might only serve a few hundred.

Depends on the diameter of the pipe Stu

[Non-Believer]

28 minutes ago, Stu Peters said:

Economy of scale thing - at a presentation this week someone said that in the UK a mile of gas pipe might serve a million homes, whereas here it might only serve a few hundred.

Plus how much the gas retailers are paying their supplier for the product?

[Bazza Smurf]

5 hours ago, hissingsid said:

I really don’t know how that has popped up again.   When I referred to the screwing bit it was regarding standing charges which meant my friends on gas were cutting down on usage but bills were still going up, one friend found out she was on the wrong tariff had been for years and had been overcharged she has also not been given any rebate that was promised to gas customers last year and according to Facebook a lot of people are in the same boat or have received derisory amounts of a couple of pounds.  I agree that standing charges are part of parcel but should not exceed the usage amount on a normal consumers account who has been using gas not been away for long periods.

The refunds paid to customers were a regulatory adjustment on overpayment on ROCE since 01/01/21. They were nothing to do with the promise of a refund/repayment for 2020/2021. 

[James Blonde]

18 minutes ago, Bazza Smurf said:

The refunds paid to customers were a regulatory adjustment on overpayment on ROCE since 01/01/21. They were nothing to do with the promise of a refund/repayment for 2020/2021. 

Bazza, I'm surprised you have gone so easy on Manx Gas. They have done you no favours over the years, wouldn't you prefer to see them nationalised and IEG gone for good? 

[finlo]

5 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Economy of scale thing - at a presentation this week someone said that in the UK a mile of gas pipe might serve a million homes, whereas here it might only serve a few hundred.

A million houses within a mile?