Happier diner Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Chris C said: But vote no and we'd have one going very cheap, and fair enough I know you aren't completely opposed to that. 👍Going cheap, but with massive debts maybe. Debts to ourselves = money gone for ever. Probably better if our Government lets them ride it out and buys it back in slightly better times. To be honest no one on here has enough information to speculate on that decision/strategy, unless they work for Manx Gas of course. All I am saying is its not that simple as some try to make out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Happier diner said: 👍Going cheap, but with massive debts maybe. Debts to ourselves = money gone for ever. Probably better if our Government lets them ride it out and buys it back in slightly better times. To be honest no one on here has enough information to speculate on that decision/strategy, unless they work for Manx Gas of course. All I am saying is its not that simple as some try to make out. If Manx Gas have massive debts at the moment (which I very much doubt), the only way they can repay those debts is by selling gas, that's their only income. If they can clear their debts by selling gas, why can't we? It really is that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chris C said: If Manx Gas have massive debts at the moment (which I very much doubt), the only way they can repay those debts is by selling gas, that's their only income. If they can clear their debts by selling gas, why can't we? It really is that simple. Fair point. My theory though is that they are now buying gas at a very high price and selling it at a much cheaper price. Rumour is they were close to bankruptcy. If they weren't before, they soon will be. But of course I am speculating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Fair point. My theory though is that they are now buying gas at a very high price and selling it at a much cheaper price. Rumour is they were close to bankruptcy. If they weren't before, they soon will be. But of course I am speculating. You maybe right, all the more reason to buy em surely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 The state of the current gas market is recognised but MG/IEG should have been sweated considerably more about the state of their finances and then sweated some more on top about the size of the necessary increase. Given their record of business on the Island and our Govt's record of kow-towing to them, certainly up to the new regulation, it's not beyond belief that a necessary 20% could become a 27% request, if you were MG, wouldn't you? Which our elected then promptly voted through without being aware of the full figures. Let's keep a close eye on other jurisdictions served by IEG, see what IEG try on and see what the responses are. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Fair point. My theory though is that they are now buying gas at a very high price and selling it at a much cheaper price. Rumour is they were close to bankruptcy. If they weren't before, they soon will be. But of course I am speculating. Of course we won't know about their profitability but you can be sure that the LLP owners in London get a cheque every month irrespective of any prices rises. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 17 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: Of course we won't know about their profitability but you can be sure that the LLP owners in London get a cheque every month irrespective of any prices rises. Now you are speculating 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 49 minutes ago, Happier diner said: All organisations should make a profit that they can use to re invest in their infrastructure. Should clarify, operational profit. An operational surplus isn't profit, though. And we'll not even get into depreciation and amortisation, nor the fact the 2015 agreement is profit *after* long-term debts have been funded. Looking at the notes to the 2015 agreement, Manx Gas said they hedged prices 6-18 months in advance, and that's why they couldn't agree to quick changes in price decreases. Add that to the fact Tynwald haven't been given full details of their accounts, and I smell the smell of bovine slurry. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Now you are speculating 🤣 That's how LLPs work. Some risk.... but lots and lots of reward. They reward themselves even if they fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said: An operational surplus isn't profit, though. And we'll not even get into depreciation and amortisation, nor the fact the 2015 agreement is profit *after* long-term debts have been funded. Looking at the notes to the 2015 agreement, Manx Gas said they hedged prices 6-18 months in advance, and that's why they couldn't agree to quick changes in price decreases. Add that to the fact Tynwald haven't been given full details of their accounts, and I smell the smell of bovine slurry. You might refer to it as operational surplus but on a PL account its profit. You are splitting hairs. The former WASA made profit and banked it. A profit does not necessarily have to be spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 38 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: The state of the current gas market is recognised but MG/IEG should have been sweated considerably more about the state of their finances and then sweated some more on top about the size of the necessary increase. Given their record of business on the Island and our Govt's record of kow-towing to them, certainly up to the new regulation, it's not beyond belief that a necessary 20% could become a 27% request, if you were MG, wouldn't you? Which our elected then promptly voted through without being aware of the full figures. Let's keep a close eye on other jurisdictions served by IEG, see what IEG try on and see what the responses are. Surely they didn't nod this through purely on MG's word? They must have seen accounts or something? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 42 minutes ago, Chris C said: Surely they didn't nod this through purely on MG's word? They must have seen accounts or something? See @Will Halsall's post, top of Page 20 on this topic? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Chris C said: Surely they didn't nod this through purely on MG's word? They must have seen accounts or something? The accounts weren't made available. Most MHKs mentioned this but voted for the increase anyway 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 From today's Independent. Try this business case approach with your bank manager and see what reaction you get. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just further to the above post, Alf says, "No Government should ever be held over a barrel by a single supplier". Except, apparently, we were? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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