forestboy Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, Gladys said: Exactly. Liberty bodice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 23 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Costs recouped via a 2% lease to MG for 25 years according to CT on Twitter.. Hence the 5% ROC?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 19 minutes ago, John Wright said: For conversion to natural gas, there was a soft finance deal. But don’t forget it provided savings to government and justified the inter connector and the new power station being gas powered. I'm thinking post-new power station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 26 minutes ago, 0bserver said: The only way to lower gas prices on the island is to allow MUA to enter the gas supply market as a second supplier - CURA has already said they believe the Island could support two gas suppliers (NPM link: https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/island-could-support-two-gas-suppliers-says-cura/)... then to get Crogga up and running and purchase gas from them at the already offered preferential rate. We can mess around with wind turbines and tidal energy things, but the planning hearings, judicial review and political tinkering means they're at least 10 - 15 years off being available. Crogga can be supplying the island within 3 years. Wouldn't that just dilute the tiny purchasing power that we have even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 12 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Debt is included in a ROC calculation so probably. Edited to add the calculation: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/return-on-equity-vs-return-on-capital.asp As MG probably services a shit load of group debt it’s probably why they agreed a ROC figure at 5%. Yes. You can bet your life there's some creative accounting going on and that MG aren't as hard up as they claim to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 1 hour ago, John Wright said: I didn’t say it would be. I said that it wouldn’t reduce gas prices. Remember, half the gas supply on the Island was government owned and run until the mid 1980’s. Everything outside Douglas, Onchan, Union Mills. There had been no investment in infrastructure. Falling apart. Gas not compatible with UK or Douglas, all appliances required conversion. Government sold it to Douglas Gas, who changed name to Manx Gas, and invested. Oh I do remember. I also remember the promise of cheaper gas before the conversion. I fail to see how removing a third party venture capital firm from the provision of gas wouldn't lead to a cost reduction? Unless we are factoring in the usual government inefficiencies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Generally these structures are debt servicing. On day one post acquisition a shit load of loan notes will be pushed down into the holding company, or perhaps the operating businesses, and then most of the future dividends/profits go up to the holding company to service the new debts created. It’s all paper money. In the top structure will be debt notes issued to institutional investors which is how they raise the capital to buy. It looks like Ancala issues these in Jersey via The International Stock Exchange which has Ancala 25 year notes with a coupon of around 8.5%. That's why I have always maintained that Ancala's monthly management fees (from the profits) will get paid ahead of everything else. BTW - does MG now have a new MD? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 Nationalisation of all essential services, cut out the numerous middlemen who's sole existence is to manipulate money for their or their shareholders benefit. Great for investors but bad for end users. Greedy and furthermore, greedy. 😮 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: Nationalisation of all essential services, cut out the numerous middlemen who's sole existence is to manipulate money for their or their shareholders benefit. Great for investors but bad for end users. Greedy and furthermore, greedy. 😮 Don’t think we’ve got the money anymore to nationalize anything else, we’ve got the £400m bond to service for refinancing MUA & steam packet debts, Liverpool to finish etc plus a pay deal for all sectors to finalize & government pension increases 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 That's it then, we're doomed, finished, had it. p.s. I'd still rather live here than anywhere else in the world. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 28 minutes ago, Banker said: Don’t think we’ve got the money anymore to nationalize anything else, we’ve got the £400m bond to service for refinancing MUA & steam packet debts, Liverpool to finish etc plus a pay deal for all sectors to finalize & government pension increases If Manx gas can't pay their government bill then in a normal world the price should be very low. Knowing our crack negotiators in government it would cost us 500 million. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 3 hours ago, 0bserver said: The only way to lower gas prices on the island is to allow MUA to enter the gas supply market as a second supplier - CURA has already said they believe the Island could support two gas suppliers (NPM link: https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/island-could-support-two-gas-suppliers-says-cura/)... then to get Crogga up and running and purchase gas from them at the already offered preferential rate. We can mess around with wind turbines and tidal energy things, but the planning hearings, judicial review and political tinkering means they're at least 10 - 15 years off being available. Crogga can be supplying the island within 3 years. Ten years off? It would be madness not to begin putting an end to over-reliance on gas for power generation immediately We've already lost one decade of renewable power progress due to appalling inertia amongst those who consider themselves the ones to make the wise decisions for the betterment of the island's future & that of it's people 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatdamaged Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 I assume all new builds (likely well insulated due to new regs), are still having gas boilers fitted and not heat pumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 Surely Minister Thomas will put a stop to that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 1 hour ago, SleepyJoe said: Ten years off? It would be madness not to begin putting an end to over-reliance on gas for power generation immediately We've already lost one decade of renewable power progress due to appalling inertia amongst those who consider themselves the ones to make the wise decisions for the betterment of the island's future & that of it's people Unfortunately the new green friendly proposal is even worse. Dear Daphne won't stand for on or offshore wind but importing biofuel and a second very expensive interconnector is the solution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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