Manx Gas MEGA Price Rise

[Banker]

7 minutes ago, cissolt said:

Unfortunately the new green friendly proposal is even worse.  Dear Daphne won't stand for on or offshore wind but importing biofuel and a second very expensive interconnector is the solution. 

Lots of wild goat’s in Laxey, perhaps we can starting burning dried goats shit for warmth 😂

[0bserver]

1 hour ago, SleepyJoe said:

Ten years off? It would be madness not to begin putting an end to over-reliance on gas for power generation immediately

We've already lost one decade of renewable power progress due to appalling inertia amongst those who consider themselves the ones to make the wise decisions for the betterment of the island's future & that of it's people

You can start the process now, but the way the Island works it would be 10 years before it's done. 

Look how long it took to resurface 1.5 miles of promenade because everybody and their dog had to be consulted and get their tuppence worth in. 

With turbines you'll have all the nature groups kicking off saying it endangers the lesser spotted Manx Shithawk or it impinges on the breeding ground of the Curraghs Drop Monkeys. Then you'll have every NIMBY complaining they can see it from their palatial residences... it will be an absolute clusterfuck of a process. 

FWIW I would like to see us developing alternative means of power generation as quickly as possible, alongside the Crogga scheme. 

 

ETA I will be amazed if we see ground broken on a new wind turbine scheme before the end of the CanCom administration, never mind seeing it operational before 2032. 

Does anyone know how many wind turbines it would take to power the Isle of Man? 

Edited September 1, 2022 by 0bserver

[SleepyJoe]

Oh I do know we have a traa-dy-liooar approach to building infrastructure, the word mañana implying too much of a sense of haste

I believe sites have been surveyed for five large turbines. Don't know whether that's enough to power the island completely on a good day

It would indeed be very sensible to diversify means of power generation as quickly as possible

Edited September 1, 2022 by SleepyJoe

[A fool and his money.....]

9 hours ago, John Wright said:

I didn’t say it would be. I said that it wouldn’t reduce gas prices.

Remember, half the gas supply on the Island was government owned and run until the mid 1980’s. Everything outside Douglas, Onchan, Union Mills. There had been no investment in infrastructure. Falling apart. Gas not compatible with UK or Douglas, all appliances required conversion.

Government sold it to Douglas Gas, who changed name to Manx Gas, and invested.

Although the government paid for the conversion to natural gas IIRC.

The island is a very different place than it was in the mid 80's. They should have refused the first price cap hike and bought MG for next to nothing.

[The Phantom]

3 hours ago, 0bserver said:

alongside the Crogga scheme. 

I've heard it was going to negatively impact the mating grounds of sea badgers. 

[Bazza Smurf]

11 hours ago, John Wright said:

That’s because they had to sell at a loss before the regulator agreed to their price increases.

The profit calculation methodology I’ve stated is correct. It’s a 5% profit return on capital employed. Not on turnover or sales.

As I understand it the 5% is on the asset base value and not on the sales. In other words there is no mark up allowed at all on the pass through of gas from the MUA. 

Not sure if that's the same as you mean. It's WACC now at 5% as opposed to ROCE previously at 9.99% guaranteed. 

[Newsdesk]

21 hours ago, cissolt said:

Unfortunately the new green friendly proposal is even worse.  Dear Daphne won't stand for on or offshore wind but importing biofuel and a second very expensive interconnector is the solution. 

The whole green and renewable proposal (if we even have a proposal) is the usual mess of pushing pet projects and arrogance. We are going to spend another 5 years doing nothing. I see Daphne has even given up talking about any of it publicly either. We can’t even run one green grant scheme competently. And the sum total of all our efforts on cutting back out carbon footprint is to hand out LED lightbulbs (a max of 5) to people who claim poverty. That is basically it. We’ve done nothing since last September when the Ministers were appointed. 

[Banker]

18 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Although the government paid for the conversion to natural gas IIRC.

The island is a very different place than it was in the mid 80's. They should have refused the first price cap hike and bought MG for next to nothing.

Well all we’d save would be the 5% on Wacc that MG get unless you want IOMG to sell gas at a massive loss paid for by taxes & what about the 100 or so staff of MG ? make them all public servants?

[A fool and his money.....]

25 minutes ago, Banker said:

Well all we’d save would be the 5% on Wacc that MG get unless you want IOMG to sell gas at a massive loss paid for by taxes & what about the 100 or so staff of MG ? make them all public servants?

If you really believe MG are only creaming off the 5% of what they're supposed to then you're very naive. There's a reason big corporates employ a lot of accountants and it's not to benefit their customers.

Some of the staff (technical) would be necessarily taken on, many roles would be duplicated at MU though so would be unnecessary, although fortunately enough we have a labour and skills shortage at the moment which this would help with.

Think about it - gas consumption is only going to go one way in the world and on the island regardless of what Crogga or anyone else tells you.

Do you really think it's in the interests of the consumer to be held to ransom by a monopoly with a history of profiteering in a reducing market? Especially one the government has recently sent a very clear signal that they're too important to let go bust. What happens when we get to the point when IEG decides they don't have enough customers to be arsed with the place anymore? 

Government could have bought them for a song when they asked for the first rise. They already own a utility company, it was madness not to.

 

[Newsdesk]

46 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

If you really believe MG are only creaming off the 5% of what they're supposed to then you're very naive. There's a reason big corporates employ a lot of accountants and it's not to benefit their customers.

The 5% is MGs allowed profit after wages, overheads, debt servicing and reinvestment etc. The debt servicing alone will be considerable so it wouldn’t just save 5% at all. 

[WTF]

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

 

Do you really think it's in the interests of the consumer to be held to ransom by a monopoly with a history of profiteering in a reducing market? Especially one the government has recently sent a very clear signal that they're too important to let go bust. What happens when we get to the point when IEG decides they don't have enough customers to be arsed with the place anymore? 

 

 

government seem to think so as gas boilers go into 99.9% of all new builds.

[A fool and his money.....]

1 minute ago, WTF said:

government seem to think so as gas boilers go into 99.9% of all new builds.

Indeed. You've got to wonder how much of Government's reluctance to alter building regs in that resect are due to them pussy footing around MG? They certainly showed with the initial price vote and then delegating further decisions to CURA that MG have them in their pocket.

[Happier diner]

2 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Indeed. You've got to wonder how much of Government's reluctance to alter building regs in that resect are due to them pussy footing around MG? They certainly showed with the initial price vote and then delegating further decisions to CURA that MG have them in their pocket.

Whilst I agree that fitting gas boilers in new builds is not great. I don't think its anything to do with Manx Gas. It because they are by far the cheapest and thats what developers will chose every time. Cheaper than full electric, heat pumps, oil. The only think cheaper would be to bung in a few convector heaters and some hot water heaters by the taps. They wouldn't get away with that so it will stay gas which is crazy.

[WTF]

32 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Whilst I agree that fitting gas boilers in new builds is not great. I don't think its anything to do with Manx Gas. It because they are by far the cheapest and thats what developers will chose every time. Cheaper than full electric, heat pumps, oil. The only think cheaper would be to bung in a few convector heaters and some hot water heaters by the taps. They wouldn't get away with that so it will stay gas which is crazy.

manx gas supply the boilers to dandara rather cheaply if rumours hold water ,  a friends daughter was buying a new build and offered to pay extra to fit oil insted of gas and it wasn't allowed , there must be some reason?????  a combi boiler and oil tank will pay for itself in 4 -5 years over the running costs of gas.

[Happier diner]

Just now, WTF said:

manx gas supply the boilers to dandara rather cheaply if rumours hold water ,  a friends daughter was buying a new build and offered to pay extra to fit oil insted of gas and it wasn't allowed , there must be some reason?????  a combi boiler and oil tank will pay for itself in 4 -5 years over the running costs of gas.

Maybe thats right. However Manx Gas don't make boilers but it's possible they are in bed with dandara. Must be a good deal though as dandara are not known for splashing the cash if they don't have to.