Happier diner Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Unless you're buying a house that's basically derelict deep retrofit isn't economicaly viable either as you basically have to gut the place anyway. All skirting off All mouldings off. All electrical sockets and switches off walls all kitchen units out New back boxes for electrics. Bit of rewiring. Insulation on. Plaster board on Skimming Electrical switches and sockets back on New kitchen and bathroom in Skirting back on Painting and decorating. Doesn't sound too bad if you say it quick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Happier diner said: All skirting off All mouldings off. All electrical sockets and switches off walls all kitchen units out New back boxes for electrics. Bit of rewiring. Insulation on. Plaster board on Skimming Electrical switches and sockets back on New kitchen and bathroom in Skirting back on Painting and decorating. Doesn't sound too bad if you say it quick. And that's just for a bit of insulation never mind ripping up all the floors for UFH meaning it's a non starter for most. ETA as there are very few refrigeration engineer's over here as it is who is going to install/maintain these things? Edited January 16, 2022 by finlo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Problem is stairwells on external walls though you're losing 80-100mm all the way up insulating and reboarding and skirting etc. Its a lot to lose in tight areas. Yeah. That's true as well. The house is a lot smaller now on the inside.😁 Its certainly a seriuos consideration. Had to go for 25mm on the halls and stairways for the reason you state. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 So what we appear to be establishing here is that retrofitting is not really a viable proposition either practically or financially for a great many older properties, let alone the finances of their owners? How long would it take to recoup the outlay, in savings on heating costs? We may as well be proposing trying to convert all ICE vehicles to electricity with the same aim; it's not going to work. There needs to be another way here, we are trying to heat properties that were designed and built in an age when coal/gas/wood were the norm and affordable, when their side effects weren't known or a consideration. One wonders what technologies might be available that were invented and then bought out and shelved in the past in order to keep fossil fuels the norm? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Government are offering free or reduced cost surveys + insulation grants up to £6k I think, could do with being higher Maybe Tynwald should incentivise investment in home insulation with a green electricity tariff for those who do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said: Government are offering free or reduced cost surveys + insulation grants up to £6k I think, could do with being higher Maybe Tynwald should incentivise investment in home insulation with a green electricity tariff for those who do it I suspect you'd be looking at between 30-50K for a retrofitted heat pump install that actually works probably significantly more if looking to ground source. So out of reach for most and even for those that could afford it the payback would be non existent. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Wow, that's a lot of £££ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 2 hours ago, SleepyJoe said: Government are offering free or reduced cost surveys + insulation grants up to £6k I think, could do with being higher Maybe Tynwald should incentivise investment in home insulation with a green electricity tariff for those who do it Discussed earlier, I applied but neither I nor anyone I know has had a survey yet! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 3 hours ago, offshoremanxman said: The survey still costs you £75 if you can get one. And the £6K is nothing really against the cost of a retrofit and, of course, you have to have the money in the first place to get the £6K back which counts out a lot of people. All that’s going to happen is that people with good incomes and nice houses will end up with nicer more efficient houses subsidized by the taxpayer and the people who really need their houses insulated to save on their bills will get nothing as they can’t afford the cost. Are the these surveys run by qualified and licensed companies? Or we going to get to a position where a company endorsed by IOMG hoovers up the market, and the consumer has no choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 3 hours ago, SleepyJoe said: Government are offering free or reduced cost surveys + insulation grants up to £6k I think, could do with being higher Maybe Tynwald should incentivise investment in home insulation with a green electricity tariff for those who do it I doubt Manx Utilities will incentivise investment in home insulation with a green electric tariff, I think they will rather hit the end user where it hurts ……… in the pocket - remember MUA still have debts to service. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, 2112 said: I doubt Manx Utilities will incentivise investment in home insulation with a green electric tariff, I think they will rather hit the end user where it hurts ……… in the pocket - remember MUA still have debts to service. Whilst that's true. Remember that the MUA, which is wholly owned by IOMG, owes all its debt to.......yes you guessed it........ IOMG, by way of bonds. That makes it all our own debt. So it's all our problem whichever way you look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 2 hours ago, SleepyJoe said: Wow, that's a lot of £££ Indeed, it's a far cry from the 5-10K that seems to get bandied about for these things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Highest price I have seen for an ASHP is £17,000 but I guess you have to fork out for much insulation before you fit them, & then there'd be a chunk of labour £ on top for a big installation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Happier diner said: Whilst that's true. Remember that the MUA, which is wholly owned by IOMG, owes all its debt to.......yes you guessed it........ IOMG, by way of bonds. That makes it all our own debt. So it's all our problem whichever way you look at it. Well, IIRC there's a big loan (c£300/400m?) from treasury to mua (£95m was written off a couple of years ago) which a notional interest rate is charged. But on top of that loan, there's an additonal £240m of treasury bonds (around 5.6%) issued which mua have to repay (though they are building a fund to do this) a chunk in 2030 and remaining chunk in 2036. They could of course refinance. Not looked at it for a while but no-one could ever tell me who owned those T-Bonds.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, b4mbi said: Well, IIRC there's a big loan (c£300/400m?) from treasury to mua (£95m was written off a couple of years ago) which a notional interest rate is charged. But on top of that loan, there's an additonal £240m of treasury bonds (around 5.6%) issued which mua have to repay (though they are building a fund to do this) a chunk in 2030 and remaining chunk in 2036. They could of course refinance. Not looked at it for a while but no-one could ever tell me who owned those T-Bonds.. Well, the MUA now says it's making money...of course, there are those on these Boards who recently seemed to be trying to deny that the MEA scandal ever existed too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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