manxman34 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: I’d love to have your crystal ball Companies all over Europe managed to see it coming - sorry you're short of a ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Makes me wonder; if you had a town of @ 85k people in UK, what choice in number of gas suppliers would they have? Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: Nobody profited personally. Didn't they? Someone Proffitted that's for sure... 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, quilp said: Didn't they? Someone Proffitted that's for sure... Yeah your right . VoR is delusional if he thinks Proffitt didnt come out of it very well. Also his mates in Barclays did all right too. Crooked so and so! Edited October 4, 2021 by Numbnuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 The 27.5% increase seems vastly out of sync with the UK price rises of between 12 and 15%. We are already paying more than 50% per unit more than the UK. Somebody somewhere is laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 2 hours ago, offshoremanxman said: The loans were ultra vires. That was never tested. I expect that if it had gone to court they would have been found legal as IoM Government does not have a great record of paperwork being as water tight it should be or as they think it is leaving others to take advantage of it. It would have been nice to know the answer, and if lawyers or individuals had mucked up seen them held to account, but I don't think there was any chance IoM would not have honoured the loan as it would have massively damaged their reputation and made counterparts very wary about dealing with them on future substantial matters if they thought IoM Govt might try to find a way not to honour contract. I am not saying what was right what was done just that Proffitt was probably a little bit smarter in understanding the small print as to what could or could not be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 6 hours ago, Stu Peters said: According to a briefing note I saw earlier, the commodity price for natural gas has risen by over 400% this year alone, so it's unlikely that any forward buying scheme would miigate that to any great degree. In that context a 28% retail price increase is not at all unreasonable. All sorts of reasons - a particularly cold winter last year (global warming?) reduced stock, Russian pipelines and additional demand in the East have all played a major part in the revised supply/demand equation. One thing is sure - we don't want Manx Gas or the MUA to go bust as has happened with a number of UK energy suppliers. Goes without saying that this will impact the elderly and those on low incomes hardest, but don't expect IOMG to be able to do much about it bar ensure that no profiteering takes place. And as has been suggested earlier in the thread, get any gas out of the Crogga field as soon as possible if it's viable and reduce our need to import. Stu, covid has shown that IOMG can do more when it wants to. This price increase is dangerous for many people , especially with a lot of folk already financially stretched after the shitshow that was the last year and then some. This needs very careful consideration and planning to avoid the very real risk of heat or eat related deaths. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 40 minutes ago, Amadeus said: Stu, covid has shown that IOMG can do more when it wants to. This price increase is dangerous for many people , especially with a lot of folk already financially stretched after the shitshow that was the last year and then some. This needs very careful consideration and planning to avoid the very real risk of heat or eat related deaths. Absolutely agree that people in that predicament need help. I suspect there will be a healthy debate on this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 6 hours ago, offshoremanxman said: https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/pp/Reports/2010-PP-0146-VOL_2.pdf The Auditors (who were qualified to express a view on the legality of the loans) view was that they were unlawful and they wouldn’t sign the accounts off: “For the purposes of clarity it should be noted that in late 2004 and 2005 there was disagreement between the then Board of the MEA and its Auditors as to the lawfulness, or otherwise, of borrowings which had not received the consent of the Treasury, as required by the Electricity Act 1996, Section 5; and the lawfulness of expenditure in respect of the Skywards Committee. The Auditors considered the borrowings and the Skyward Committee's expenditure unlawful, the then Board of the MEA considered the borrowings and the Skyward Committee's expenditure to be lawful. If the former Board Members of the Manx Electricity Authority had accepted the views of the Auditors in late 2004 and 2005 then a Motion would have been put to Tynwald at that point requesting that Tynwald sanction the expenditure under Section 7(1) of the Audit Act 1983, this would have enabled the Auditors to complete the audit and sign off the accounts.” As it says that is the opinion of the auditors. It does not make it a fact and auditors are not known for always being right https://www.ft.com/content/fedd96fc-780d-4ddb-85c2-6d41dc2025ab https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/comment/article-9948421/ALEX-BRUMMER-KPMG-scandal-blow-clean-capitalism.html https://www.goingconcern.com/heres-your-scorecard-for-kpmg-u-k-fines-so-far-in-2019/ If I wanted an opinion on the legality of something I would appoint a legal firm familiar with such matters rather than a firm of accountants. I am sure that the auditors got legal advise as I am sure the borrower and lender did before entering into the transaction. Whose was correct we will never know as it did not go to court. It is hardly novel that different lawyers take different views on the same set of facts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 9 hours ago, Non-Believer said: Makes me wonder; if you had a town of @ 85k people in UK, what choice in number of gas suppliers would they have? The annoying thing is that if the MUA maintained the infrastructure there should be no good reason the market couldn’t be opened up. that said, with Gas, electric and water, my view is that it should be nationalized in the UK too, and run at a maintenance and supply level, at the lowest possible price at point of use, to support householders and business alike. They are basic 21st century essentials. Remove shareholders and the whole thing gets back to what it should be. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 The reason the MEA saga didn't go any further than it did was simple .. It was a question of what those at the top of the MEA saga knew about those at the top in Government ! Better all round to lift the carpet and sweep ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 21 minutes ago, asitis said: The reason the MEA saga didn't go any further than it did was simple .. It was a question of what those at the top of the MEA saga knew about those at the top in Government ! Better all round to lift the carpet and sweep ! Nice conspiracy theory. In my view it did not go any further as the costs to take to court and argue would have been huge and IoM Govt were always going to have to agree honour as they had been backed into a corner. If they had gone to court and argued the loan was void it would make any party wary of doing business with them in the future. It would have caused huge reputational damage. If you new a party tried to get out of a contract due to a technicality rather than honour it would you be wary of dealing with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: The auditors are usually the voice of reason in these situations. As a fully paid up member of the ICAEW I should agree with you but there is too much history which might lead me to question that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, Lost Login said: Nice conspiracy theory. In my view it did not go any further as the costs to take to court and argue would have been huge and IoM Govt were always going to have to agree honour as they had been backed into a corner. If they had gone to court and argued the loan was void it would make any party wary of doing business with them in the future. It would have caused huge reputational damage. If you new a party tried to get out of a contract due to a technicality rather than honour it would you be wary of dealing with them? When a very close family member of one of those near the top tells you that is the case, it does perhaps hold a little water ! Not a man in the pub! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) As important as not getting the correct authorisation is, does it really change the bottom line for consumers? A new power station was needed, it needed financing, that financing would have been paid by consumers over the long term. Would we have ended up where we are anyway? Edited October 5, 2021 by Declan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.