Manx Gas MEGA Price Rise

[Bandits]

3 minutes ago, John Wright said:

And it would be standard practice for a small scale ( relatively ) purchaser seeking its wholesaler to hedge on its behalf to provide security or guarantees. What did MG offer?

Well that’s the question isn’t it that needs to be asked. According to Jo Cox they weren’t asked for anything by way of surety at all they were just told “no” due to their perceived credit risk. An FOI around that might be interesting.

[Sentience]

Sorry to side-step these financial discussions, but just heard on MR that MG are to start installing some kind of electronic gas managing/monitoring device to all their customers, AND there will be a charge/subscription to use it....WHAT!

Please don't tell me this installation is mandatory??!!

Talk about salt in the wound, absolutely taking the proverbial! 

Come on iomg, wake up to what is happening around us and actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Sentience
Clarification.

[Happier diner]

39 minutes ago, Sentience said:

Sorry to side-step these financial discussions, but just heard on MR that MG are to start installing some kind of electronic gas managing/monitoring device to all their customers, AND there will be a charge/subscription to use it....WHAT!

Please don't tell me this installation is mandatory??!!

Talk about salt in the wound, absolutely taking the proverbial! 

Come on iomg, wake up to what is happening around us and actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Why would you think it was mandatory?

It's just the ability to control your heating remotely using an app. They are offering it. Why would they do it for free?

[cissolt]

Sounds like they are copying the British gas hive subscription service.  She mentioned this at the PAC meeting with promised of huge savings for customers.   I am still waiting for the cheap natural gas we were promised....

[TheTeapot]

46 minutes ago, Youaintseenme said:

 

A few quid on the quarterly bill instead for a full controlled system with TRVs and a smart stat?  Yes please.  You would be stupid not to.

 

Why would you be stupid not to? 

I don't currently have gas and neither do I live in a 10 bedroomed mansion so might be missing the point, but seriously what is the benefit? The water is heated in the boiler and that fires up when you turn the tap, and you can adjust the temp to what you want already, the boiler has a timer for the heating and most peoples heating have little controls on the radiator anyway, a couple of weeks in the winter in pretty much any home and you'd know when it needs to run and how hot you want it. Where are the huge savings coming from? 

My all electric flat is on a smart meter and I can log in and see which circuits are drawing power and when and whatnot and while it was vaguely interesting for a couple of minutes while i was messing with it when it was first installed its actual benefit appears to be nothing at all.

[finlo]

All the likes of Hive achieve over other controls is bragging rights 'oh look everyone I've turned my heating on while sat on the bus' as for smart meters their only reason for being is so you can be charged more for your electricity at whatever times the supplier decides.

[TheTeapot]

36 minutes ago, Youaintseenme said:

Different thermostat levels for different days if the week and times of day.

Auto detection of when people aren’t in the house, so it drops the temp a few degrees.

Auto adjustment based on outside temperature and humidity.

Google it.  Nest, Tado, Hive, Honeywell, Drayton are all good systems that definitely save money and make a house more comfortable.

When I go to bed I always tell Alexa when I want to have an alarm the next morning and it isn’t always the same time.  A system like these and it can auto warm the bedroom and kitchen half an hour before I wake up without having to do anything.

 

Honestly it sounds awful. But I accept that might just be me.

I'm struggling to see how it can save you loads of money? Sounds like it can save you some money if you spend the time programming things to work like you want, but if you are that on it you can save the money by paying attention anyway.

Be handy to turn the heating off if you forget I suppose. Left my electric radiator on one day when I went to work, battered about a fivers worth and made my flat too hot for 3 days.

 

[cissolt]

1 hour ago, Youaintseenme said:

Jo Cox worked for hive at a senior level for three years.

She isn’t copying anything.  She is using her experience from successfully implementing it there to do the same here.

Thanks Jo for popping in. 

[Bazza Smurf]

The new regulations allow a 2% profit margin on retail. That includes sales and subscriptions. The ROCE has been slashed on supply as has many of the benefits that were had with the 2015 voluntary gas agreement (See 2018 NERA REPORT). Things are not quite as good for them as they were.  

[2112]

The NPM this morning reports Manx Gas are looking to introduce a social tariff for low to middle income earners. They cite Claire Christian MHK Douglas South as coming up with the idea. This is laughable as this idea has been around for years. With some Housing Associations in the UK, they have a special tariff for their tenants, their meters are card or key meters.
 

Their is a slight problem though, even with having special rates, gas is expensive and many people on low incomes can’t afford it, especially if the wages or income hasn’t kept pace, and low to middle income earners also have other financial obligations so many households have to decide whether to heat, eat or pay the rent and other bills. This issue still applies here despite Ashies handouts to the lower income members of society. Also if there are special rates introduced, who will pay for them, it will mean higher rates for middle to higher income households. My idea is simpler is how it works in the UK, a tenant or householder with a key or card meter has to set up an account with the supplier who then provides a key or card. The card can be topped up at off licences, corner shops and post offices displaying the pay zone or paypoint logo. Personally I can’t see anything coming out of this idea. Manx Gas aren’t used to being adaptable and are too interested in making profits for their shareholders. Whether fitting new payg meters to identifying low to middle income people, is going to be highly costly and possibly prone to errors.

If Manx Gas introduce a new social tariff, then Manx Utilities should be compelled to introduce the same to customers. Perhaps wealthy shop keepers could pay more to heat and power their retail premises?

[Bazza Smurf]

4 hours ago, 2112 said:

The NPM this morning reports Manx Gas are looking to introduce a social tariff for low to middle income earners. They cite Claire Christian MHK Douglas South as coming up with the idea. This is laughable as this idea has been around for years. With some Housing Associations in the UK, they have a special tariff for their tenants, their meters are card or key meters.
 

Their is a slight problem though, even with having special rates, gas is expensive and many people on low incomes can’t afford it, especially if the wages or income hasn’t kept pace, and low to middle income earners also have other financial obligations so many households have to decide whether to heat, eat or pay the rent and other bills. This issue still applies here despite Ashies handouts to the lower income members of society. Also if there are special rates introduced, who will pay for them, it will mean higher rates for middle to higher income households. My idea is simpler is how it works in the UK, a tenant or householder with a key or card meter has to set up an account with the supplier who then provides a key or card. The card can be topped up at off licences, corner shops and post offices displaying the pay zone or paypoint logo. Personally I can’t see anything coming out of this idea. Manx Gas aren’t used to being adaptable and are too interested in making profits for their shareholders. Whether fitting new payg meters to identifying low to middle income people, is going to be highly costly and possibly prone to errors.

If Manx Gas introduce a new social tariff, then Manx Utilities should be compelled to introduce the same to customers. Perhaps wealthy shop keepers could pay more to heat and power their retail premises?

You are correct. 

 

Where did the idea of a 'Social Tariff' come from? I'll tell you. It was actually Manx Gas themselves who came up with the idea in about 2017. It will be interesting to see how it is implemented. 

In 2018 the NERA REPORT was publically released. This is the cutting from the Government Gas Committee report released alongside the NERA Report. The idea of the social tariff is not a 2022 idea. There has been talk about it for 4 years now. The reality is that the previous administration concentrated on the legislation related to gas supply and not really on the secondary issues like possible implementation of a social tariff. 

 

 

[2112]

3 hours ago, Bazza Smurf said:

You are correct. 

 

Where did the idea of a 'Social Tariff' come from? I'll tell you. It was actually Manx Gas themselves who came up with the idea in about 2017. It will be interesting to see how it is implemented. 

In 2018 the NERA REPORT was publically released. This is the cutting from the Government Gas Committee report released alongside the NERA Report. The idea of the social tariff is not a 2022 idea. There has been talk about it for 4 years now. The reality is that the previous administration concentrated on the legislation related to gas supply and not really on the secondary issues like possible implementation of a social tariff. 

 

 

It isn’t a new idea but it wins Clare Christian votes at the next election. Whatever happens, social tariff or no social tariff, Manx Gas won’t take a hit to subsidise a lower rate for low to middle income earners, it will be the hard working general gas users who will have to pay more. 
 

Gas Deposits - this is used as a way of recouping should a new gas user not pay. It’s ironic really that after a year, MG return the deposit. Should a customer have difficulty paying a gas supplier could install a pre payment meter so the user pays for what they use, and an agreed amount towards the debt. I doubt somehow that MG will introduce a new initiatives towards low to middle income earners, and I doubt IOMG are prepared to upset Manx Gas. Sadly IOMG would rather demonise and legislate against those it deems are the source of all the islands problems. 

[cissolt]

Ancala and their partners Peel holdings have done very well out of government for some time.  They must have friends in the right places 

[Bandits]

12 hours ago, 2112 said:

The NPM this morning reports Manx Gas are looking to introduce a social tariff for low to middle income earners.

Is that the gas equivalent of being entitled to free school milk? 

[Ringy Rose]

On 4/18/2022 at 8:31 AM, 2112 said:

Perhaps wealthy shop keepers could pay more to heat and power their retail premises?

Commercial gas supply tariffs for high users are negotiated directly between Manx Gas and the relevant businesses.  Manx Gas won't be underselling themselves.

On 4/17/2022 at 4:14 PM, Bazza Smurf said:

Things are not quite as good for them as they were.  

No, CURA have done a good job so far in standing up to them in a way that OFT never did.  It's almost as though the CURA CEO has a lot of experience in the industry.

I was very hard on CURA earlier in the thread but my opinion has been revised.  We'll see how it goes.