Dirty Buggane Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 5 hours ago, forestboy said: Your wood supplier?? has anybody got some wood for my sheep (snigger) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Even if you turn the gas off the standing charge will fuck you over 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said: has anybody got some wood for my sheep (snigger) Yew? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 52 minutes ago, cissolt said: Will we ever have transparency on what the Mua buy it for and what the price is to Manx gas? Rob messaged the Mannin line stating they sell it at cost. We won’t. Callister said on Manx Radio the other day that the MUA don’t sell it on to Manx Gas at a profit but that can’t possibly be true. If they have bought a load of gas forward priced and got delivery of it. Its highly likely that they then sell that gas to Manx Gas at the spot rate on the day Manx Gas takes delivery from the MUA and use it. So in all likelihood they have the potential to make a massive profit by selling gas they bought forward priced cheap to Manx Gas at the current market price on the day that it’s delivered to Manx Gas. Wouldn’t the no profit only apply if they bought gas at the spot price that day and sold it to Manx Gas at the same spot price same day for no mark up or margin. But as we know the MUA has been buying gas forward in big tranches in the last two years. But it says that Manx Gas only pays for it on the day it uses it. Presumably at the prevailing spot market price that day? That leaves scope for huge arbitrage in pricing. Edited August 11, 2022 by Bandits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bandits said: We won’t. Callister said on Manx Radio the other day that the MUA don’t sell it on to Manx Gas at a profit but that can’t possibly be true. If they have bought a load of gas forward priced and got delivery of it. It highly likely that they then sell that gas to Manx Gas at the spot rate on the day Manx Gas take delivery from the MUA and use it. So in all likelihood they make a massive profit by selling gas they bought forward priced cheap to Manx Gas at the current market price on the day that it’s delivered to Manx Gas. Wouldn’t the no profit only apply if they bought gas at the spot price that day and sold it to Manx Gas at the same spot price same day for no mark up or margin. But as we know the MUA has been buying gas forward in big tranches in the last two years. But it says that Manx Gas only pays for it on the day it uses it. Presumably at the prevailing spot market price that day? That leaves scope for huge arbitrage in pricing. Why don't you just leave subjects you know F*&k all about to those who do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Happier diner said: Why don't you just leave subjects you know F*&k all about to those who do? You seem to be the expert on f*&k all to be honest. Edited August 11, 2022 by Bandits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Bandits said: You seem to be the expert on f*&k all to be honest. I am not an expert on forward purchasing of gas and that's for sure. However, unlike you I do understand the principle of hedging. Do us all all a favour, Google it, digest it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Happier diner said: However, unlike you I do understand the principle of hedging. I’m not sure you do to be honest because if you did you’d understand where the potential for arbitrage came in when selling on goods you’d originally hedged the price of at current spot prices. Like most subjects on here you just seem to kick off when people don’t agree with you. Edited August 11, 2022 by Bandits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Just now, Bandits said: I’m not sure you do to be honest because if you did you’d understand where the potential for arbitrage came in when selling on positions you’d hedged. Like most subjects on here you just seem to kick off when people don’t agree with you. I know that MUA only hedge a proportion of their forward purchases. That's what companies do. To be honest I have no idea if they make money out of selling it to MG. However being a government owned statutory board I very much doubt they could get away with making a vast profit out of ripping Manx Gas off. Their accounts are in the public domain. What makes you believe that they are making a profit? If they did, that would be first wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Happier diner said: To be honest I have no idea Thanks. End of debate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bandits said: Thanks. End of debate. Do you promise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Don't MG hedge through MUA? Wasn't that the root of a spat earlier this year when MG said they weren't allowed to buy forward or something and MUA said that was because they hadn't paid their bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Just now, Gladys said: Don't MG hedge through MUA? Wasn't that the root of a spat earlier this year when MG said they weren't allowed to buy forward or something and MUA said that was because they hadn't paid their bill? That was how I understood it. Although it gives me a headache trying to understand it all. I reckon I trust MUA more than I trust MG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Gladys said: Don't MG hedge through MUA? Wasn't that the root of a spat earlier this year when MG said they weren't allowed to buy forward or something and MUA said that was because they hadn't paid their bill? Indeed they do: https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/price-rise-despite-manx-utilities-hedging-1116-of-gas-546099 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Davey Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Gladys said: Don't MG hedge through MUA? Wasn't that the root of a spat earlier this year when MG said they weren't allowed to buy forward or something and MUA said that was because they hadn't paid their bill? I sort of get the above. So if so why would you allow Manx Gas to hedge forward (they apparently don’t allow them to now due to credit risk) when you can sell them your own hedged forward gas? For instance say I bought 10,000 therms at a forward price of 10p in March for delivery in October. Then when I received it in October say Manx Gas wanted 1,000 therms from the MUA to cover their usage that week and the current price was 20p a therm. Surely the MUA would sell/deliver gas it has to them at 20p a therm? They say no profit but really I’d suspect they possibly mean no mark up on the prevailing current price the applies in the market on the day it’s delivered to MG? Edited August 11, 2022 by Wavey Davey Typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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