Gladys Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Wavey Davey said: I sort of get the above. So if so why would you allow Manx Gas to hedge forward (they apparently don’t allow them to now due to credit risk) when you can sell them your own hedged forward gas? For instance say I bought 10,000 therms at a forward price of 10p in March for delivery in October. Then when I received it in October say Manx Gas wanted 1,000 therms from the MUA to cover their usage that week and the current price was 20p a therm. Surely the MUA would sell/deliver gas it has to them at 20p a therm? They say no profit but really I suspect they mean no mark up on the prevailing current price the applies in the market on the day it’s delivered to MG? Presumably because MUA bundles MG's demand with their own to hedge, or buy forward, or whatever. If MG don't participate in that bundling (because MUA doesn't allow them due to credit risk), the MUA would possibly still commit to the same volume of gas but are under no contractual obligation to sell to MG at the hedged price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I reckon I trust MUA more than I trust MG. If you trust any of them. Oh you fool Edited August 11, 2022 by Dirty Buggane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Just now, Dirty Buggane said: Oh you fool I've gotta say it was a tough choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Just now, Gladys said: Presumably because MUA bundles MG's demand with their own to hedge, or buy forward, or whatever. If MG don't participate in that bundling (because MUA doesn't allow them due to credit risk), the MUA would possibly still commit to the same volume of gas but are under no contractual obligation to sell to MG at the hedged price. My headache is getting worse. Surely MUA can only sell it at cost + handling charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Davey Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Gladys said: If MG don't participate in that bundling (because MUA doesn't allow them due to credit risk), the MUA would possibly still commit to the same volume of gas but are under no contractual obligation to sell to MG at the hedged price. And in that case, using my example above, surely the MUA would be selling hedged gas bought at 10p a therm to Manx Gas at 20p a therm on the day of delivery and yet claiming it’s making no profit? No wonder it doesn’t want them to be able to hedge their own position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptarmigan Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Manx Gas use the MUA to buy their gas. All hedging decisions etc are made by manx gas, the MU just provide the facility to do it and charge manx gas the price. They don’t make anything on it. They stopped buying for manx gas briefly when they stopped paying in full. It’s all back to usual though. MU’s own hedges must be running out now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Sell it at what ever there heart so desires, its OUR pipeline. Not another cash cow.(I know I know I'm sorry) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Just now, Wavey Davey said: And in that case, using my example above, surely the MUA would be selling hedged gas bought at 10p a therm to Manx Gas at 20p a therm on the day of delivery and yet claiming it’s making no profit? No wonder it doesn’t want them to be able to hedge their own position. To be honest though. Are we not all just guessing? Even if someone explained it all to me I don't think I would understand it. I'm not the only one on here that is that category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Just now, ptarmigan said: Manx Gas use the MUA to buy their gas. All hedging decisions etc are made by manx gas, the MU just provide the facility to do it and charge manx gas the price. They don’t make anything on it. They stopped buying for manx gas briefly when they stopped paying in full. It’s all back to usual though. MU’s own hedges must be running out now. If that right, and it sounds plausible then thank you. Even I can understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ptarmigan said: Manx Gas use the MUA to buy their gas. All hedging decisions etc are made by manx gas, the MU just provide the facility to do it and charge manx gas the price. They aren’t any more. They buy off the MUA at current as they aren’t allowed to hedge themselves via the MUA anymore. So what price do they buy all the gas off the MUA for even if the MUA has hedged it’s own position? Is it the spot price on the day that they use it? Edited August 11, 2022 by Bandits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Just now, Bandits said: They aren’t any more. They buy off the MUA at a spot price as they aren’t allowed to hedge themselves via the MUA anymore. So what price do they buy all the gas off the MUA for even if the MUA has hedged it’s own position? How do you know that? Who is forbidding this? Genuine questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Happier diner said: How do you know that? Who is forbidding this? Genuine questions Do you read the papers? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-61082191 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bandits said: Do you read the papers? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-61082191 That was October last year. It's now 10 months on and the last headline I saw was MG saying they had paid up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bandits said: They aren’t any more. They buy off the MUA at a spot price as they aren’t allowed to hedge themselves via the MUA anymore. So what price do they buy all the gas off the MUA for even if the MUA has hedged it’s own position? Is it the spot price on the day that they use it? so why don't manx gas fuck the MEA off and buy their gas from elsewhere ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 1 minute ago, WTF said: so why don't manx gas fuck the MEA off and buy their gas from elsewhere ? They have no pipes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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