CallMeCurious Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Anyone else hear the nonsense being spouted on MR this morning? George Orwell was only 37 years early, thought crime is here. Mind readers wanted. Evidence is not a requirement, victims or (literally) anyone else, perceive you were motivated by hostility because of perceived difference or offence. Even if it is not a criminal offence, it is recorded. Met Police ~ what is a hate thought crime In most crimes it is something the victim has in their possession or control that motivates the offender to commit the crime. With hate thought crime it is ‘who’ the victim is, or ‘what’ the victim appears to be that motivates the offender to commit the crime. A hate thought crime is defined as 'Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race; religion or perceived religion; sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation; disability or perceived disability and any crime motivated by hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender.' A hate thought incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someone’s prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender. Not all hate thought incidents will amount to criminal offences, but it is equally important that these are reported and recorded by the police. Evidence of the hate thought element is not a requirement. You do not need to personally perceive the incident to be hate thought related. It would be enough if another person, a witness or even a police officer thought that the incident was hate thought related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said: Anyone else hear the nonsense being spouted on MR this morning? George Orwell was only 37 years early, thought crime is here. Mind readers wanted. Evidence is not a requirement, victims or (literally) anyone else, perceive you were motivated by hostility because of perceived difference or offence. Even if it is not a criminal offence, it is recorded. Met Police ~ what is a hate thought crime In most crimes it is something the victim has in their possession or control that motivates the offender to commit the crime. With hate thought crime it is ‘who’ the victim is, or ‘what’ the victim appears to be that motivates the offender to commit the crime. A hate thought crime is defined as 'Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race; religion or perceived religion; sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation; disability or perceived disability and any crime motivated by hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender.' A hate thought incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someone’s prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender. Not all hate thought incidents will amount to criminal offences, but it is equally important that these are reported and recorded by the police. Evidence of the hate thought element is not a requirement. You do not need to personally perceive the incident to be hate thought related. It would be enough if another person, a witness or even a police officer thought that the incident was hate thought related. Grow up. You can’t transpose Hate for Thought like that. It’s silly and meaningless. You’ve got hold of completely the wrong end of the stick 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, John Wright said: Grow up. You can’t transpose Hate for Thought like that. It’s silly and meaningless. You’ve got hold of completely the wrong end of the stick Is my thinking wrong then? Edited October 13, 2021 by CallMeCurious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Totally. If you abuse or assault someone because you think they are gay, disabled, trans, a woman, and you happen to be wrong, your action is not qualitatively different or excusable 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Wright said: Totally. If you abuse or assault someone because you think they are gay, disabled, trans, a woman, and you happen to be wrong, your action is not qualitatively different or excusable But it runs deeper than that ~ the crime is what you think I was thinking at a moment in time even if you were not involved and there is no evidence. Evidence of the hate element is not a requirement. You do not need to personally perceive the incident to be hate related. It would be enough if another person, a witness or even a police officer thought that the incident was hate related. So if I thought someone bumped into me on purpose or said I was mentally deficient in some way and I thought they were not the same as me (by dint of some protected characteristic whether my perception was true or not) should I report it? Even though I have no evidence there was any hate element, I just think there is? Edited October 13, 2021 by CallMeCurious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 The action would need to be a crime, not just being bumped into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Oh no, my crimes might get misinterpreted 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Roberts is gonna need those 30 recruits. https://news.sky.com/story/second-legal-challenge-over-police-hate-incidents-starts-as-court-hears-freedom-of-expression-at-risk-12241063 Will this mean 'hate-crime enhancement' when sentencing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 This island on the whole is very very tolerant, accepts other religions, sexuality and compared to other backward waters isn’t too racist. Its a very very small minority of idiots here causing problems, abusive threats etc. Unfortunately there are a few idiots causing issues on Facebook and other social media. Jealousy and Avarice on the island in some cases if anyone is successful or has money - and that is directed at all people irrespective of race, creed or sexuality, unfortunately leads to bitterness in some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 59 minutes ago, Mr. Sausages said: Oh no, my crimes might get misinterpreted You're doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 is it time to start kicking the shit out of people you like then ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Layman Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 51 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Yet at the same time the police are asking for information about someone who allegedly shouted at someone else in the Ramsey Shoprite carpark last week. You can see all of this getting out of control as Gary Roberts hunts to find crimes for them to investigate to keep the crime solved rates low. Especially if we decriminalize cannabis and they can’t count people that they arrest for £1 of weed in their coat as crimes solved anymore. Whilst ignoring real crime on their doorstep 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 4 hours ago, Declan said: The action would need to be a crime, not just being bumped into. But if I perceived it to be a hate crime or incident then shouldn't it be reported? If I thought they did it on purpose because they were different to me, or I thought they were, and thought I was I being targeted by them because of that percieved difference? Remember there need be no evidence, I only need to think that they were thinking that they did it deliberatly becasue they hate my 'type'. They needn't have said anything. I could still feel threatened by it and fear that it was because I was different to them. A hate incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someone’s prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender. After all if you don't report every incident aren't you contributing or condoning the problem? Isn't that why we need to raise awareness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 The Met Police page you quote is clear, but you miss that bit out. "Types of hate crime Hate crime can fall into one of three main types: physical assault, verbal abuse and incitement to hatred. Physical assault Physical assault of any kind is an offence. If you’ve been a victim of physical assault you should report it. Depending on the level of the violence used, a perpetrator may be charged with common assault, actual bodily harm or grievous bodily harm. Verbal abuse Verbal abuse, threats or name-calling can be a common and extremely unpleasant experience for minority groups. Victims of verbal abuse are often unclear whether an offence has been committed or believe there is little they can do. However, there are laws in place to protect you from verbal abuse. If you’ve been the victim of verbal abuse, talk to the police or one of our partner organisations about what has happened. You’ll find a list of them on our How to report hate crime page. Even if you don’t know who verbally abused you, the information could still help us to improve how we police the area where the abuse took place. Incitement to hatred The offence of incitement to hatred occurs when someone acts in a way that is threatening and intended to stir up hatred. That could be in words, pictures, videos, music, and includes information posted on websites. Hate content may include: messages calling for violence against a specific person or group web pages that show pictures, videos or descriptions of violence against anyone due to their perceived differences chat forums where people ask other people to commit hate crimes against a specific person or group" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) x Edited October 13, 2021 by Declan freshers can't delete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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