National Hate Crime Awareness Week 2021 ~ Thought crime

[Declan]

1 minute ago, offshoremanxman said:

What are British values? And there is most certainly a cancel culture that surrounds a lot of woke-ism. When people can’t say what they actually think through fear of losing their jobs or their reputation then we have a problem with freedom of speech. I see another university lecturer was sacked today for saying that there are only two sexes following a massive social media backlash and demands for her to lose her post from the trans lobby. There should be no real harm associated with expressing what you believe whether other people like what you say or not.

We’re actually in danger of re-writing a record of history in some cases by denying things actually happened. Or by removing scenes from repeated TV shows like Faulty Towers because they reflected the views of the time and not now. Surely people should be clever enough to work out that society has changed and that what they’re viewing today is a reflection of attitudes that pervaded at the time a series was filmed not now rather than scream hate crime?

What are British values? I don't know - it's something people who use phrases like "woke-ism", "re-writing history" and loudly pedal the lie that "you can't say anything anymore" say. I thought that it was supposed to be tolerance of other people - but increasing any effort to attack racism or homophobia is attacked by the Orwellian right and their new-speak words like "cancel culture", "political correctness" and "woke agenda". See the first post in this thread for the kind of lies they pedal. 

That's not to say there aren't overzealous people who go to far, most times it's officialdom being jobsworths, sometimes people are wrong but we need to discuss and challenge these people not overexaggerate and lie. For example, it would be concerning if a lecturer was sacked for an unpopular opinion, but I can't find one being sacked today. I can see one who has received support from her employers after coming under fire. 

[HeliX]

14 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

That’s not the greatest come back to be honest and re-writing history we most certainly are in many cases in a bid not to upset people who are getting far too over sensitive about how they choose to filter reality. Opposite views used to be encouraged as the main basis of intelligent debate. Now few can hold a different view to the consensus through fear of being hounded out of their job or losing their income. Cancel culture it most certainly is if people lose their income or positions just through expressing a certain view.

in general we seem to be turning into a fairly miserable society where there is no willingness to accept anyone else’s views as having any merit at all. We should be able to learn from seeing and reading history not try to erase parts of it as it’s upsetting or controversial. John Cleese taking the piss out of people of his generations attitude to the Germans or West Indian cricketers in Faulty Towers is not racism that needs to be erased from view. It was actually taking the piss out of racist attitudes that some people held at the time and should stand on record.

You've always been able to lose your job for saying things.

Has anyone lost their job for giving their opinion in good faith? So far as I've seen, it's always been for being obnoxious and derisive, not for wanting actual discussion.

[HeliX]

19 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

Also stating a biological fact about there being two sexes should not cause an outcry really even if that conflicts with other peoples adopted beliefs.

Is that actually what happened though? Because so far as I can see, they weren't fired like you stated.

[Declan]

I don't recognise that as a description of Britain. The people who shout loudest about cancel culture seem to do it from a tabloid column or microphone a LBC. 

Also, you can't just assert that history is being re-written without providing evidence (the Fawlty Towers example is censorship if it's anything). History is always being re-evaluated as new information emerges and in the context of the prevailing theories of the time. A Victorian Historian's view of the Roman Empire differed from Renaissance Historians. That's how the study of history works. Suggesting that process shouldn't happen now is the strongest affront to the freedom of thought and academic integrity there is. 

[Declan]

4 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

I don’t see much shouting about cancel culture to be honest. And really I don’t care about Britain or what is British or what isn’t as I live in the IOM which has a Celtic and Norse history. 

Good job you are so resolute about not re-writing history then. 

 

[Declan]

You seem to have missed the joke in the post you were quoting. 

[Anyone]

4 hours ago, thommo2010 said:

Missing out on that 10 in a row really hurt didn't it lol

 

But in all seriousness no hating Rangers fans isn't a crime but calling them huns just shows you to be a massive sectarian bigot

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/court/aberdeen-man-fined-over-sectarian-rant-about-facemasks-in-mcdonalds/

I’m a Protestant and I don’t support Celtic. Hate them just as much ( not a crime ). Very glad they missed out on 10 in a row.  It’s all about context. 

[quilp]

Have you ever thought about what drives your sectarianism? 

[Anyone]

4 minutes ago, quilp said:

Have you ever thought about what drives your sectarianism? 

Don’t have to , hun is not a sectarian term. Some would like it to be but it’s not. Been around as slang term for them since WW1. It’s a football thing , get over it.

[Sheldon]

48 minutes ago, Anyone said:

Don’t have to , hun is not a sectarian term. Some would like it to be but it’s not. Been around as slang term for them since WW1. It’s a football thing , get over it.

The right thinking majority of such football fans don’t hate Protestants, they just hate Union Jack-draped Rangers fans who glorify battles that date back to 1690, and routinely sing songs about the Irish famine and being up to their knees in Fenian blood. They also don’t hate Catholics, they just hate Celtic fans who wave tricolours and sing songs glorifying the IRA’s indiscriminate murder of men, women and children. On the plus side, all that sectarianism keeps them too busy to be overly racist. 

[Anyone]

1 hour ago, Sheldon said:

The right thinking majority of such football fans don’t hate Protestants, they just hate Union Jack-draped Rangers fans who glorify battles that date back to 1690, and routinely sing songs about the Irish famine and being up to their knees in Fenian blood. They also don’t hate Catholics, they just hate Celtic fans who wave tricolours and sing songs glorifying the IRA’s indiscriminate murder of men, women and children. On the plus side, all that sectarianism keeps them too busy to be overly racist. 

That is pretty much it. All football fans in Scotland who don’t support the OldFirm hate them. It’s nothing to do with sectarianism , that belongs to them it always has. So I will reiterate hun is not a sectarian term. Celtic fans do suffer from sectarian terms but I’ll not state them here because we all know what they are and are unacceptable. 

Having said that just to keep the balance , I hate the Huns just as much as the plastic paddies who follow Celtic. Both sets are soap dodging scumbags , no offense like. In the Old Firm hating environs of Jockland Iprix is known as Greyskulls and Celtic Park as the San Giro. 
 

Our culture so accept it or fuck off.

What you have to remember is that one Scottish club has its fans dubbed heroin addicts thus all HIV infected , another obsessed with bestiality , and another part of the travelling community. It’s all very offensive , sometimes funny but it is what football fans are.

Think Man U v Leeds and others. 

 

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

12 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

This is the one that I really do not get. Threats of violence fine but name-calling? We’re entering into the realms of the thought police and policing behaviour not acts. Is this a hate crime as defined by the Met? 
 

Would you suggest that there is an acceptable time to call someone a faggot or a queer, referring to them in a derogatory way? Or perhaps using the n-word to describe a Black person?

Words can be incredibly wounding, especially when you're having your head kicked in whilst being called a faggot.

Edit to add: There has been a push to reclaim the word Queer as a positive word in the community. It's controversial because many people do have negative connotations from it being targeted towards them,

Edited October 14, 2021 by AcousticallyChallenged

[AcousticallyChallenged]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:50 PM, Whatnonsence said:

Woke Police Service imported from the UK has overtaken us in the Isle of Man.
Little or no evidence of HATE on the Island so let’s go and find it shall we.

Any chance of uniform officers patrolling the streets again that would be radical.

Bear in mind, that, as members here have said, as late as the 90s, there were arrests being made for being gay. Homosexual activity was only decriminalised in the 90s.

I know people who were in school with the past decade being beaten up and bullied for their sexuality or race. You can look at MR comments or Isle of Man News and Politics to find questionable views towards race and sexuality too.

There's a big difference between 'woke culture' and realising that people need to be a bit more tolerant, and that tolerance isn't achieved by marginalising swathes of people.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

I think one of the problems is, we have two distinct camps.

People who know how to treat and respect other human beings.

People who don't know how to not be a dick.

Understandably, people from the first may feel defensive when they feel like they're being accused of being in the second camp.

If you read that the police are talking about hate crimes, and you realise you aren't being a dick to people, then you're probably in the clear. You're not being accused of hate crimes, or being thought policed. It's not 1984 anymore than it was yesterday.

But, blaming woke culture sells papers, and divides people.

[pongo]

10 hours ago, Declan said:

It depends on context. Which is the answer to so many of these issues, but for some reason those stoking the culture war myth don't seem to understand context. 

Many of them consider 'context' to be essentially a Marxist perspective - especially when applied to language. Often being not especially bright, they tend to distrust the idea that words have fluid meanings.