Legco 2021

[hissingsid]

Anyone who thinks LegCo is a part time job is wrong that is they if the member fulfills their obligations.   I have known a few members of LegCo over the past few years and they get plenty of phone calls asking for help in this and that also they serve on committees.   They also have a great deal of reading to do in their scrutinising capacity.    I am not saying they all put the hours in but those who are diligent do.   The thing about Shimmins is he has been dismissive regarding LegCo over the years now he wants to join them.  He did not have the appetite to run for election just wants in through the back door.

[Stu Peters]

Interesting thread. But whilst I will take some good points on board I'm not listening to speculation. I've spoken to two potential candidates, replied to another couple by email and am hoping to meet two more later this week.

Remember, anyone can stand if they have sufficient support, and I accept that there are many people who have NOT been MHKs who would be eminently suitable. I thought it a travesty that Alastair Ramsey didn't get the gig some years ago for example. But he probably knows where the bodies are buried...

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

Shimmins made it clear he wanted to take a backseat because of family reasons and an MLC role is one where people aren’t ringing you up every ten minutes demanding your time. 

It's not a good look is it, though?  "I want to be a politician, but I don't want to have to do anything with you horrible plebs".

Actually the amount of constituency work that MHKs do is over-estimated by outsiders.  I think PAG did a survey a few years back and it was about 10% of workload - and this was based on what MHKs said themselves and so probably higher than in reality (because people always overestimate this stuff).   People aren't ringing up every ten minutes and compared to what an MP or even an urban councillor has to deal with in the UK, it's pretty light.

And of course MLCs get contact from the public as well - about general issues (quite legitimately as they are also lawmakers) but also sometimes about constituency matters if they live locally and are seen as more effective than the MHKs.  Both Lord-Brennan and Poole-Wilson seem to have had this.

As for Shimmins who does give a sort of explanation in his nomination statement:

My decision not to stand for election for the Keys in September was a very difficult one. As many of you are aware, I needed to spend time with my family, some of whom are struggling with serious health problems. We, like many Islanders, found it hard to support loved ones from a distance during the pandemic and lockdown period. However, I am confident that if elected to the Council, I will be able to fully discharge MLC duties in tandem with family responsibilities.

But it suggests that he sees MLC duties as much lighter than an MHK's, and they really shouldn't be.

[Declan]

Presumably though, a lot of the scrutiny work can be done remotely and paced throughout the day around other commitments. Meanwhile, an MHK will need to attend constituency meetings, visits to schools and other facilities, a department member would need to attend meetings in the department more regularly than a scrutiny committee member. Plus the time to actively campaign for re-election itself might have been too much for his family commitments.

MHKs need to explore how he intends to make this work before voting for him, but I don't think family commitments should be a bar to this role, and it feels a little discriminatory if it was. 

[2112]

25 minutes ago, Declan said:

Presumably though, a lot of the scrutiny work can be done remotely and paced throughout the day around other commitments. Meanwhile, an MHK will need to attend constituency meetings, visits to schools and other facilities, a department member would need to attend meetings in the department more regularly than a scrutiny committee member. Plus the time to actively campaign for re-election itself might have been too much for his family commitments.

MHKs need to explore how he intends to make this work before voting for him, but I don't think family commitments should be a bar to this role, and it feels a little discriminatory if it was. 

If he can’t work full time, unsocial and out of hours, over and above 50 hours per week then he I’m afraid he is useless. Clock watchers, famiy issues and health issues restrictions need not apply. These roles need 100% commitment, enthusiasm, dedication and sincerity, not working in an old pals club, election after election, nice salary which includes perks,  followed by even nicer pension. 

[2112]

It’s worth noting that Shimmins has been hammered by posters on IOMNP Facebook and I’m afraid that Dafneeee and others haven’t exactly endeared themselves. What a difference a month makes, from heroes to being slagged off. 

[Declan]

6 minutes ago, 2112 said:

If he can’t work full time, unsocial and out of hours, over and above 50 hours per week then he I’m afraid he is useless. Clock watchers, famiy issues and health issues restrictions need not apply. These roles need 100% commitment, enthusiasm, dedication and sincerity, not working in an old pals club, election after election, nice salary which includes perks,  followed by even nicer pension. 

I suppose I start from a position that I don't see the point of having LEGCO, but I severely doubt any LEGCO member does 50 hours a week. However, if he can do his 50 hours in the evenings or by spreading it out over the weekend, what's the problem? Besides, LEGCO is mostly reading documents - it can be done at home in the evenings. We need effective representatives not those that practice presenteeism. I certainly worry about banning anyone with health issues or young families or who cares for an elderly relative just because of some Victorian concept of hard work. 

[Andy Onchan]

13 hours ago, 2112 said:

Well he decided not to defend his seat after 1 term. That’s bottling out in my view. Shimmins whilst being top bod at RBS killed off the RBS operations - and even as an ex RBS MD, he couldn’t use his influence as an ex Banker and MHK, to prevent the erosion of the Isle of Man Bank. If he has no influence to me he isn’t of any use. Sorry if this upsets people.

Legco needs people with life experience, and business experience. No superstars, no ex politicos by the back door and certainly no more retired civil servants, teachers, postmen or pharmacists. We also need people able to use their influence on others and certainly not swayed by members of the HOK. Shimmins will be part of a cosy cabal back in the Treasury with Ashy. 

 

 

RBS - he was acting on orders from above and from outside IOM. So if it wasn't Shimmins then it would have been someone else.

[2112]

37 minutes ago, Declan said:

I suppose I start from a position that I don't see the point of having LEGCO, but I severely doubt any LEGCO member does 50 hours a week. However, if he can do his 50 hours in the evenings or by spreading it out over the weekend, what's the problem? Besides, LEGCO is mostly reading documents - it can be done at home in the evenings. We need effective representatives not those that practice presenteeism. I certainly worry about banning anyone with health issues or young families or who cares for an elderly relative just because of some Victorian concept of hard work. 

I’m sorry but successive Treasury Ministers have been tough on the population especially since 2008 and the VAT clawback.

Its a dog eat dog world, people who aspire for public office need to be treating the role seriously, not clock watching, not worrying about family commitment or picking the kids up from school. Get a nanny, create a job. Get a housekeeper. After all they had a large pay rise. Elderly Relatives - put them in Salisbury Street …………….joking folks! 
 

Tynpotwald has taken the piss at the electorates expense, with the electorate having no say over Legco, more and more scrutiny is taking place. We had MHKs in the past who knocked off early, left Tynpotwald sessions early etc. Commitment? My arse. 
 

If there are free and democratic island wide Legco elections in a democratic society the will of the people is accepted. Sadly on the island the HOK is vetting who they will accept into their hallowed club. Like the Masonic Lodge, some could be black balled. 

[2112]

2 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

RBS - he was acting on orders from above and from outside IOM. So if it wasn't Shimmins then it would have been someone else.

I was only following orders!

I am sorry but he was part of the machinery, the processes and procedure. It won’t have come as a shock to him, as he would have been part of the decision making process. Unless he was a sock puppet?

[Andy Onchan]

10 minutes ago, 2112 said:

I was only following orders!

I am sorry but he was part of the machinery, the processes and procedure. It won’t have come as a shock to him, as he would have been part of the decision making process. Unless he was a sock puppet?

Your words not mine.

And the same can probably be applied to all the other banks on the Island as well. As I and lots of others who have had commercial dealings with banks on the Island will attest to.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Andy Onchan

[Declan]

@2112 - we want effective politicians. I don't think that's measured by a stop-watch. In fact, if  busy-bees rushing around doing all sorts of work at high pace to look like they're effective is what our politicians aspire to be then that would explain a lot of grandiose schemes we've had in recent years. 

[Barlow]

10 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Actually the amount of constituency work that MHKs do is over-estimated by outsiders. 

I would say the answer is yes and no.

Without wanting to name anybody, I am in a two seat constituency that has up until this last election,  been represented by two men and two women since 1996.

The two women worked diligently for their constituents. For their constituents the men, as far as I can see, did fuck all. Sweet fanny adams fuck all.

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Declan said:

Presumably though, a lot of the scrutiny work can be done remotely and paced throughout the day around other commitments. Meanwhile, an MHK will need to attend constituency meetings, visits to schools and other facilities, a department member would need to attend meetings in the department more regularly than a scrutiny committee member. Plus the time to actively campaign for re-election itself might have been too much for his family commitments.

MHKs need to explore how he intends to make this work before voting for him, but I don't think family commitments should be a bar to this role, and it feels a little discriminatory if it was. 

I think the problem here is what Shimmins himself identifies in that quote - that his family commitments are off-Island.  If it was just local then a good support network would mean that they could be coped with, but frequent and unpredictable periods away would be a different matter.

I'm also not convinced that scrutiny work can be done remotely unless it's all a box-ticking exercise.  I' sure the Prom looks like a triumph of engineering.  On paper.

[Declan]

2 minutes ago, Barlow said:

I would say the answer is yes and no.

Without wanting to name anybody, I am in a two seat constituency that has up until this last election,  been represented by two men and two women since 1996.

The two women worked diligently for their constituents. For their constituents the men, as far as I can see, did fuck all. Sweet fanny adams fuck all.

You've forgotten Jon Joughin