Legco 2021

[Barlow]

 

3 hours ago, Declan said:

 Besides, LEGCO is mostly reading documents - it can be done at home in the evenings. 

Or not, and not even in the office.

There have been those who, such as have been parachuted from Keys to LegCo, who can arrive at a sitting without having ever even seen the various legislation.

Let alone absorb, understand, comment and vote on it.

The phrase "....what are we being asked to vote for today?" springs to mind. As they open the envelope that was sent out a couple of weeks ago with the relevant papers enclosed.

Aye, so keep your mouth shut other than to just say "aye" at each stage. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Barlow

[Declan]

5 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

I think the problem here is what Shimmins himself identifies in that quote - that his family commitments are off-Island.  If it was just local then a good support network would mean that they could be coped with, but frequent and unpredictable periods away would be a different matter.

I'm also not convinced that scrutiny work can be done remotely unless it's all a box-ticking exercise.  I' sure the Prom looks like a triumph of engineering.  On paper.

Which is why I say ... "MHKs need to explore how he intends to make this work before voting for him..." 

People seem to be too quick to right it off as impossible, when I think we should look at whether those with other committments can be helped to take these roles. 

Personally, I think people are focusing on trivia, when the reason he shouldn't be an MLC is the job he did as an MHK.  

[SleepyJoe]

Shimmins kept a watchful eye on Unlucky Alf as Treasury Minister. I'm normally against MLCs in departments but I hope if he is appointed he'll replace the utterly useless Henderson, & observe the goings on

[Roger Mexico]

21 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

My view is that for what purports to be a 'scrutiny of government legislation' role, a former MHK is probably best equipped for the job. The option is that MHKs vote for someone with little or no experience of the arcane world of Tynwald processes, protocols and procedures and has zero public mandate. At least someone who even only stood as MHK has subjected themselves to public scrutiny, whereas some nominations in the past have appeared to be more about ticking boxes than choosing the best person.

The trouble is that, as Barlow points out above, you only have to look at the 'scrutiny' provided by ex-MHKs on LegCo to see how poor they were at it.  Hansard shows that usually little attention they gave to any legislation consisted of old anecdotes, misunderstandings and the occasional irrelevant hobby-horse.  Their contributions to Tynwald (where they could and should contribute just as much as any MHK) mainly consisted of background mumblings if proceedings threatened to go beyond teatime on the first day.

 As for "the arcane world of Tynwald processes, protocols and procedures", it was fairly clear that, despite many years in the place, some of them had little knowledge and frequently made mistakes or had little idea of what was going on - and no intention of finding out.  Though given the tendency of presiding officers to make things up as they went along, I'm not sure it matters as much as you think.  

But in any case the same worry about lack of 'experience' would surely apply to new MHKs as well.  Have you resigned so Middle will get a more 'experienced' replacement yet?  

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Declan said:

Which is why I say ... "MHKs need to explore how he intends to make this work before voting for him..." 

People seem to be too quick to right it off as impossible, when I think we should look at whether those with other committments can be helped to take these roles. 

Personally, I think people are focusing on trivia, when the reason he shouldn't be an MLC is the job he did as an MHK.  

Well quite, but if he can't even provide an explanation for the contrast of his actions in not standing and then standing, it doesn't suggest much competence in dealing with more complex situations.

2 hours ago, Declan said:

You've forgotten Jon Joughin 

Well we all try.

[Barlow]

  Well observed and summed up:

4 hours ago, 2112 said:

Sadly on the island the HOK is vetting who they will accept into their hallowed club. Like the Masonic Lodge, some could be black balled. 

Much as it pains me to say so, and even much more as it hurts to think the word 'pragmatic', in the bigger picture the above is probably better than any alternative.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Barlow

[Non-Believer]

3 hours ago, SleepyJoe said:

Shimmins kept a watchful eye on Unlucky Alf as Treasury Minister. I'm normally against MLCs in departments but I hope if he is appointed he'll replace the utterly useless Henderson, & observe the goings on

But what did this "watchful eye" achieve though? Another billion on pensions and another 400 on headcount during the last year and term respectively, for example. Perhaps there were points where he provided useful guidance but on which and where, he had little to offer but criticism of the administration on the wind-down to the election?

[hissingsid]

Here we go a very attractive lady has now entered the fray courtesy of Alex A. Business lady looks a better bet than Craine who stood twice for MHK and was unsuccessful and the scot who did not a lot.   There will be more no doubt hopefully not discarded politicians.

[GreyWolf]

I have a query, I know sitting mhks who loose there seats gets a parachute payment, obviously Shimmin doesn’t qualify as he stepped down but if one of the big Gang of Four losers  sneak back into legco (not happy if any did) I sincerely hope that payment is withdrawn or payed back as there straight back on the gravy train rewarded for failure. Basically does this loophole exist.

[SleepyJoe]

50 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

But what did this "watchful eye" achieve though? Another billion on pensions and another 400 on headcount during the last year and term respectively, for example. Perhaps there were points where he provided useful guidance but on which and where, he had little to offer but criticism of the administration on the wind-down to the election?

More than Henderson did, I suspect

[ellanvannin2010]

4 hours ago, SleepyJoe said:

Shimmins kept a watchful eye on Unlucky Alf as Treasury Minister. I'm normally against MLCs in departments but I hope if he is appointed he'll replace the utterly useless Henderson, & observe the goings on

Was he any better than Henderson? 

Are you happy your hero nominated him? 

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, GreyWolf said:

I have a query, I know sitting mhks who loose there seats gets a parachute payment, obviously Shimmin doesn’t qualify as he stepped down but if one of the big Gang of Four losers  sneak back into legco (not happy if any did) I sincerely hope that payment is withdrawn or payed back as there straight back on the gravy train rewarded for failure. Basically does this loophole exist.

No.

The Members of Tynwald (Resettlement Grant) Scheme 2018 (2018-SD-0041) provides that if a Member under 60 years of age who has served at least two years is unsuccessful in seeking re-election to either the Keys or the Council, he or she will be paid the equivalent of six months’ basic salary. If a person receives this grant but is elected to either Branch within six months, or is in receipt of a pension provided under the Isle of Man Government Unified Scheme 2011, a proportion of the money must be repaid.

Because of his age Boot (and Perkins) won't get anything anyway - though presumably the pension starts straight away.

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, hissingsid said:

Here we go a very attractive lady has now entered the fray courtesy of Alex A. Business lady looks a better bet than Craine who stood twice for MHK and was unsuccessful and the scot who did not a lot.   There will be more no doubt hopefully not discarded politicians.

Yes just what Tynwald needs - a professional lobbyist for those most oppressed people on the Island - the construction industry.

[2112]

18 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Yes just what Tynwald needs - a professional lobbyist for those most oppressed people on the Island - the construction industry.

Professional IOMG employee, whatever way you dress it up. Of course Allinson will know her as she was running construction courses at the College. Construction apprentices have been neglected by IOMG hence the need for imported labour and the skills shortages. FACT not FICTION. What construction workers there are, and contractors are on fantastic money for work, and will be able to afford Manx Gas prices all day long. 

[Will Halsall]

2 hours ago, hissingsid said:

Here we go a very attractive lady has now entered the fray courtesy of Alex A. Business lady looks a better bet than Craine who stood twice for MHK and was unsuccessful and the scot who did not a lot.   There will be more no doubt hopefully not discarded politicians.

Very attractive? This is one of those occasions where I wish I used a pseudonym on here.