Manx footballers racially abused.

[hissingsid]

All over the Nations Station this morning .The man in charge of diversity has sent out a questionnaire to Manx footballers asking them if they have had any experience of racial abuse.  I think it was 29% said yes, that figure is open to correction as the dog was whining at the time.   Now what constitutes racial abuse apart from the obvious racist horrible taunts.   Does Douglas butty, or Govag or Paddy etc count because it needs defined as serious or banter.   When I was young the referee got the most abuse usually being accused of being blind.   What do you all think I despise fans who are aggressively racist and do it to distract the players but footy matches without a bit of banter ?

[2112]

1 minute ago, hissingsid said:

All over the Nations Station this morning .The man in charge of diversity has sent out a questionnaire to Manx footballers asking them if they have had any experience of racial abuse.  I think it was 29% said yes, that figure is open to correction as the dog was whining at the time.   Now what constitutes racial abuse apart from the obvious racist horrible taunts.   Does Douglas butty, or Govag or Paddy etc count because it needs defined as serious or banter.   When I was young the referee got mthe most abuse usually being accused of being blind.   What do you all think I despise fans who are aggressively racist and do it to distract the players but footy matches without a bit of banter ?

With the growth in the population both temporary and newcomers buying property on the island, there is a noticeable presence in different nationalities, and creeds. Sadly there are some who can’t accept or tolerant other nationalities or people of colour. They can’t even accept some English people irrespective. It’s sad but it’s life, and I’m not surprised.

We have had this discussion regarding people with differing sexual orientation. It’s now down to our Politicos to open their mouths, however, I feel some are more focused on catering for some sectors of society, rather than being truly inclusive. 

[wrighty]

I'm reluctant to discuss racism at all in a public forum, in case someone in 10 years time trawls through my online history looking to make trouble, and something I write today is seen as unacceptable in the future.  It's very hard to predict what that might be so best say nothing.  See today's news reports for examples.

[2112]

1 minute ago, wrighty said:

I'm reluctant to discuss racism at all in a public forum, in case someone in 10 years time trawls through my online history looking to make trouble, and something I write today is seen as unacceptable in the future.  It's very hard to predict what that might be so best say nothing.  See today's news reports for examples.

Im sure your sensible and not a idiot who expresses outlandish racist, sexist and homophobic views or stupid jokes. There are sadly some that do and it’s coming back to haunt them, even something innocuous that can be misconstrued or ambiguous in meaning. You normally post sensibly on here, without offending anyone.

[hissingsid]

Well Facebook has certainly come back to bite some cricketers on the posterior.

 

 

[Numbnuts]

Recently talking to friends I've been amazed by how many have racial leanings. A couple are clearly openly racist and when even trying to discuss there attitude its clear they are very set in there ways. I might add all are from a older retired generation . Quite sad really . Incidently its those same people that were vigorously in favour of Brexit too and wouldnt listen then either. Personally I love the many different races and customs etc we now have over here and have many friends from Eastern Europe too who bring so much to the party. Maybe my views have something to do with my late fathers upbringing as he was born in India due to parents in Colonial service. Yes there are some issues with some but isnt there also with some Manx.. I have to add that these days its a bit like walking on eggshells when chatting knowing what you can and cannot say !!. And as the poster further up has mentioned all the banter towards 'Paddys' and 'Micks' etc on building sites is that now deemed as racist ?? 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Numbnuts

[hissingsid]

But do you not think that sometimes it is stirring the pot.    I think that we should be proud of our multi cultural society and it should be viewed as normal for everyone to get on not making it an issue for debate and discussion.   Perhaps I live a sheltered life but I have never encountered any racism in any of the groups I am a member of and we are all sorts, shapes and sizes.  I think obese people get more unwanted attention than anyone else, stares and smirks etc.

 

 

 

 

[2112]

I think on the whole this island is relatively tolerant and treats people of all colour, creeds and sexuality well. It’s not perfect and may not be fully perfect, but compared to places, it is a good place even with its faults.

It wasn’t helped by its actions 30 years ago to the LGBTQ community but now hopefully things are improving. Racism and Religious tolerance are now required. 

[wrighty]

27 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Im sure your sensible and not a idiot who expresses outlandish racist, sexist and homophobic views or stupid jokes. There are sadly some that do and it’s coming back to haunt them, even something innocuous that can be misconstrued or ambiguous in meaning. You normally post sensibly on here, without offending anyone.

I'm certainly aware of what I write and think carefully about it.  But my point is that we don't know in years to come what might be acceptable or not.  I was telling some young docs this morning of how it was as a child in the 1970s and early 80s, recalling the sitcom 'Love Thy Neighbour', which was based entirely on a white couple who had a black couple move in next door.  The language used in that was clearly seen as acceptable to broadcast by the TV executives of the time.  Had Twitter existed then and they'd tweeted similar words, they'd now be being pilloried for it. 

I'm generally uncomfortable with the concept that people are getting judged for words written years before when barely adult, and are now being taken out of context.  I'm also uncomfortable that single words are being defined as unacceptable for some to say, with people losing their jobs over it.  Words can be unacceptable in many contexts, but surely the more dangerous aspects of racism aren't calling someone a **** (can't bring myself to type it, in case I get sacked for it in 2027), but the ideas and actions themselves, which often go unnoticed or are accepted as OK.

[Peter Layman]

11 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I'm certainly aware of what I write and think carefully about it.  But my point is that we don't know in years to come what might be acceptable or not.  I was telling some young docs this morning of how it was as a child in the 1970s and early 80s, recalling the sitcom 'Love Thy Neighbour', which was based entirely on a white couple who had a black couple move in next door.  The language used in that was clearly seen as acceptable to broadcast by the TV executives of the time.  Had Twitter existed then and they'd tweeted similar words, they'd now be being pilloried for it. 

I'm generally uncomfortable with the concept that people are getting judged for words written years before when barely adult, and are now being taken out of context.  I'm also uncomfortable that single words are being defined as unacceptable for some to say, with people losing their jobs over it.  Words can be unacceptable in many contexts, but surely the more dangerous aspects of racism aren't calling someone a **** (can't bring myself to type it, in case I get sacked for it in 2027), but the ideas and actions themselves, which often go unnoticed or are accepted as OK.

Sadly, in a nutshell that is the problem. Before the authorities start on their historic prosecutions and persecutions they should consider the time the so called racist comments were made because quite clearly back in the 60's and 70's they weren't. I remember as a child somebody calling another kid a n****r. He was dragged into the headmaster's office and given the rollicking of his young life. So even back then there were boundaries. Being offended on behalf of somebody has almost become a cottage industry. People should concentrate on the future

[thommo2010]

There was a cricketer on the news this morning who is being investigated by the ecb after a photo emerged of him in black face at a fancy dress party... From 2009. Racism is terrible and anyone being racist should be held to account but this type of thing who does it benefit? 

 

As for this story I have been involved in manx football for 30 years I can hand on heart say I've never witnessed any racism, if a team mate of mine racially abused someone they would be binned from the team however that's not to say it doesn't happen I've just not personally witnessed it. 

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, wrighty said:

I'm certainly aware of what I write and think carefully about it.  But my point is that we don't know in years to come what might be acceptable or not.  I was telling some young docs this morning of how it was as a child in the 1970s and early 80s, recalling the sitcom 'Love Thy Neighbour', which was based entirely on a white couple who had a black couple move in next door.  The language used in that was clearly seen as acceptable to broadcast by the TV executives of the time.  Had Twitter existed then and they'd tweeted similar words, they'd now be being pilloried for it. 

 

Two points on Love Thy Neighbour:-

1.  It wasn't funny and certainly did not stand up well against many contemporary comedies.

2. The butt of the joke was invariably the white male bigot who was often outdone on many levels by his black male neighbour and the two wives got along fine with no racial issues. 

Not that the second point justifies it, it was an unsophisticated attempt to highlight the stupidity and ignorance of racism. 

[Declan]

 

1 hour ago, wrighty said:

I'm certainly aware of what I write and think carefully about it.  But my point is that we don't know in years to come what might be acceptable or not.  I was telling some young docs this morning of how it was as a child in the 1970s and early 80s, recalling the sitcom 'Love Thy Neighbour', which was based entirely on a white couple who had a black couple move in next door.  The language used in that was clearly seen as acceptable to broadcast by the TV executives of the time.  Had Twitter existed then and they'd tweeted similar words, they'd now be being pilloried for it. 

I'm generally uncomfortable with the concept that people are getting judged for words written years before when barely adult, and are now being taken out of context.  I'm also uncomfortable that single words are being defined as unacceptable for some to say, with people losing their jobs over it.  Words can be unacceptable in many contexts, but surely the more dangerous aspects of racism aren't calling someone a **** (can't bring myself to type it, in case I get sacked for it in 2027), but the ideas and actions themselves, which often go unnoticed or are accepted as OK.

I think the "right thing" here is, everybody - 

1. Understands language impacts on others. 
2. Tries not to insult people on the basis of their membership of "a group", or by using stereotypes. Avoid hitting down, if you like. 
3. Recognise that this is an evolving situation and as we learn more about other's experiences, phrases we use willy-nilly now might have connotations we are unaware of now but will be in the future. 
4. Understand, that people make mistakes, particularly-
   • young people who are trying to fit in 
   • older people who found the world change around them
5. Takes ownership when they've made a mistake. Apologise sincerely take any remedial action
6. People recognise and celebrate personal growth and let people return from errors.

[wrighty]

18 minutes ago, Declan said:

 

I think the "right thing" here is, everybody - 

1. Understands language impacts on others. 
2. Tries not to insult people on the basis of their membership of "a group", or by using stereotypes. Avoid hitting down, if you like. 
3. Recognise that this is an evolving situation and as we learn more about other's experiences, phrases we use willy-nilly now might have connotations we are unaware of now but will be in the future. 
4. Understand, that people make mistakes, particularly-
   • young people who are trying to fit in 
   • older people who found the world change around them
5. Takes ownership when they've made a mistake. Apologise sincerely take any remedial action
6. People recognise and celebrate personal growth and let people return from errors.

Good post, agree with all you say. 

Point 3 though - brave of you to use the phrase “willy-nilly” as this will probably at some point in the future be thought of as a derogatory phrase to describe a post-op trans woman. Be careful Declan. 
 

[Are attempts at humour in this field still allowed, or best avoided?]

[Declan]

Only if one doesn't know the etymology of "willy-nilly", Wrighty.